Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

growstuff

Katie59

Israel gets no sympathy from me it’s their war they will fight it in any way they can, I have no sympathy for Palestinians they don’t get it! - Israel will do whatever is needed to win they have to, they dont have an alternative.
I do have sympathy for the children

But they're not going to eradicate Hamas! What they've done is ensure that at least one more generation of Palestinians hates them and endangers their security. Even if they clear them out of Gaza, you can be sure they'll find a way. Not only that, but Israel is losing sympathy from the allies it's going to need in the future. It's a small country with few natural resources. It needs primarily American money to defend itself. The evidence suggests that its own army isn't disciplined enough to do a good job.

Maybe they won’t eradicate Hamas but they will get to the point that Hamas looses its power over the population of Gaza. After WW2 we didn’t eradicate the Nazi ideology, but the power was gone the population accepted allied rule, military occupation prevented any revivals.
When Israel wins the war it’s up to them to change their policies and treat the Palestinians fairly, terrorists will still be active as they are in neighbouring countries. A large security force will be needed to suppress them, that is exactly the case in Egypt and Jordan both peaceful because they effectively suppress terrorists, as indeed we do.

Israel has never treated the Palestinians fairly. Why would eradicating most of them change Israel's mindset?

Katie59 There were certainly still pockets of Nazi ideology after WW2, but the difference is that the majority of Germans accepted the horror that the regime had inflicted. It was self-infliction. There was also a conscious de-Nazification programme. The Wirtschaftswunder (business miracle) and co-operatin with other European nations though the Common Market played a big part.

Palestinians haven't inflicted decades of history on themselves. They will continue to see that they were pawns in the Western powers' agreements and will continue to see Israel as the state which stole their land. The vast majority of Germans didn't see any other states in that context. Presumably by "ideology" you mean Arab hatred of Jews (and others). To destroy that kind of ideology, Arabs need to be persuaded that they're not victims, but I'm afraid history says otherwise. I can't see that kind of thinking disappearing for many generations.

I agree with you that Palestinians need to see they're being treated fairly (no more settlements in the West Bank for a start) and a large efficient security force is going to be needed to protect Israel and deter attacks.

Gaza and the West Bank need a superb leader - goodness know who that could be!

There is always propaganda from all sides in a war but I'm surprised to see lies perpetrated on this social media site about aid workers.

growstuff

Gaza and the West Bank need a superb leader - goodness know who that could be!

There is a popular leader but the Israelis have him in prison for obvious reasons. I can’t think of his name off hand.

70% of Palestinians unsurprisingly support Hamas and Israel is ensuring that this support remains rock solid.

I am beginning to despair that there will ever be an answer that will leave Israel secure and the Palestinians sovereign.

What is very worrying is the action regarding Israel bombing the embassy in Syria and the skirmishes with Hezbollah.

Israel too needs a superb leader, which is wholly in the hands of the Israeli electorate because the one they have had for 30 odd years has been accused of terrorism and is holding onto power because he knows he will probably end up in jail on criminal charges too numerous to mention.
As to Hamas terrorists I am not disagreeing with that but wonder how many of us are aware that at least 3 previous Israeli prime ministers were seen as terrorists Begim, Shamir, Sharon and of course Netanyahu. Rabin another Israeli PM was murdered by his own side because of the 1993 peace accord, the last time there was any chance of peaceful coexistence.
Given Israel is a young country, that’s a lot of time being governed by very questionably leaders.
Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu also terrorists, who were both rightly feted by the world. Then the two leaders of the IRA, deemed terrorists, whose voices we were not even allowed to hear, yet all had power in the end and many were revered.
There are more no doubt but I don’t claim to be a historical expert in these matters,

Silverlining48 history is of course, always written by those with power. Ariel Sharon, known as the "butcher of Beirut" was responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent Lebonese civilians and then went on a 24 hour genocidal killing spree on the Shatila and Sabra Palestinian refugee camps, resulting in the slaughter of 2,500 – 4,000 helpless Palestinian refugee victims, most of whom were women, the aged, and children. It didn't stop him becoming Prime Minister though.

Israel is a country built by terrorism, which looking at things from a distance can seem quite ironic, but the way this must influence Hamas and provide them with recruitment material is serious. After all if one country can do it why can't they?

While I think episodes like the current one can make people anti the other group, I don't think it is inevitable. Children aren't born hating:they are taught to hate. You can equally teach them to respect the other point of view. Most of us, born during WW2 haven't gone through life hating the Germans. I wonder how many British children, taken to the Pro Palestinian marches, ever have the other side explained to them. The current re-emergence of anti-semitism in the world is very concerning.

I’d rather be a female living under Israeli rule though. Hamas is not too good for women,homosexuals or those who disagree with them in any shape or form. But, hey Ho, what does that matter ?

Statement from PM Sunak

Sunak is right, we need a pause at the very least.

The statement is very careful and bland.
Of course all want a ceasefire, hostage return, and negotiations, and for so very long (in a whole series of attempted peace negotiations)

But the statement, doesn't address the issue of the occupation of Palestinian territory, and how without land and rights (like a Palestinian State) Palestinians can build a future for themselves.

SKY is reporting that the Israel is beginning to withdraw all but a few troops from Southern Gaza.

Not sure that you are right about women’s rights in Gaza Nanna8. Education for all children is highly regarded and 57% of the students at Gaza university are women.
This is not the Taliban.

🤞Biden has prevailed and his power and threat to withdraw support has given Netanyahu a jolt.

Our little prime minister is simply echoing Biden.

silverlining48

Not sure that you are right about women’s rights in Gaza Nanna8. Education for all children is highly regarded and 57% of the students at Gaza university are women.
This is not the Taliban.

I don’t think women in Gaza are conscripted into the army either?

No Maybe I don’t think they are.

No ceasefire without return of hostages

Israel is one of only a few countries where military service is compulsory for all able bodied women.

Wyllow3

The statement is very careful and bland.
Of course all want a ceasefire, hostage return, and negotiations, and for so very long (in a whole series of attempted peace negotiations)

But the statement, doesn't address the issue of the occupation of Palestinian territory, and how without land and rights (like a Palestinian State) Palestinians can build a future for themselves.

I think the statement is fine.
He has called categorically for the conflict to end and for aid to get in.

It's not up to Sunak/the UK to address these issues at the moment.

The future of that region is going to take an enormous amount of international negotiations.

growstuff

I agree with you that Palestinians need to see they're being treated fairly (no more settlements in the West Bank for a start) and a large efficient security force is going to be needed to protect Israel and deter attacks.

Hamas has certainly inflicted the current slaughter on the Palestinians, which is far greater than anything Israel caused over previous decades. If Hamas is allowed to prevail the suffering of civilians will get worse and could get much worse.

maddyone

Israel is one of only a few countries where military service is compulsory for all able bodied women.

In theory that is correct but there are plenty of reasons they don’t serve in the military, men also have several exemptions to avoid service. However if it got desperate those that could would help any war effort as happened in the UK in both world wars. It’s not just front line service, women manned the factories and supply services to free men for fighting.