Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

Totally agree with ^Philippa69’s* post, thank you 🙏

Philippa60

Hi GNers. I'm originally from the UK but have been living in Israel for decades now.
As I posted on a previous thread, I believe I represent the average, moderate, peace-seeking, middle of the road Israeli.
I am firmly against Netanyahu and his right-wing extremist partners.
I believe that Netanyahu needs to go and make way for a more moderate leader, we truly hope that will happen but don't know when.
What I can tell you as someone who lives here and is very connected to what is happening is the following:

1. October 7th was a game changer. There was a ceasefire, and no Israelis in Gaza, on October 6th. Hamas' declared aim is the elimination of Israel and all Israelis, me included.
How do you make peace with such an entity? After they have shown what they are capable of, and sworn to repeat it, would YOU leave them in power?

2. We still have 134 hostages in Gaza. We need them OUT. Many are dead, but we want them back, to be laid to rest. There are 19 women still there, apparently being raped and sexually abused. This is unbearable. 2 young children are still there, probably dead

3. Based on points 1+2, Israel needs to ensure that Hamas cannot repeat the October 7th massacre, and we need our hostages back - an immediate ceasefire would then happen.

4. Food and supplies enter Gaza on a daily basis. Hamas steals food from its own citizens to feed its remaining forces. Israel is not restricting the entry of food and medicines, but at the same time Hamas does not allow our hostages to receive medicines, food and Red Cross visits as per International Law.

We are devastated at the situation here for over 5 months now. I appreciate those of you who are showing support and welcome a dialogue.

To those who criticize, and I am sure there are many things to criticize here (see my point above about Netanyahu) I would simply ask: "What would you do if it was your country, your citizens, being murdered, raped, burned, held hostage?"
All suggestions truly welcome
P60

I'm sorry Phillippa60 I can only assume that your lack of correct information is caused by the propaganda being issued to Israeli citizens. This is a link to a meeting of the UN when the food shortages in Gaza were discussed on 27th Feb.
As an example this is one statement
The representative of Malta, noting that nearly 600,000 people are on the brink of famine in Gaza, said this catastrophic level of food insecurity is the direct result of Israel’s military campaign and its inability to abide by its legal obligations to facilitate unimpeded delivery of humanitarian assistance. Calling for the reopening of Port Ashdod, she said further crossing points must be reopened immediately to allow adequate scaling up of aid. A permanent ceasefire is crucial, now more than ever, she said, noting that vast swathes of crucial arable land have been destroyed and agricultural infrastructure has suffered intense damage. Denouncing any forced displacement of Palestinians from their lands or homes, she expressed concern about public statements in Israel expressing the intent to deprive civilians in Gaza of food, water and fuel and underscored the vital role of UNRWA
You can read the whole press release here
press.un.org/en/2024/sc15604.doc.htm

Sadly there is little doubt that the destruction of agriculture and the lack of clean water are the direct result of Israel's actions and the suffering particularly of young children is caused by this.
There may be aid getting in but it is too little.
That's why many countries have participated in dropping aid from the air. All other methods being inadequate,
No matter what has happened to the Israeli hostages the starvation of children is an unacceptable method of waging war.

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Totally agree with *Phillippa’s post , thank you Phillippa

Sorry Glorynanny but I am sure Phillippa60 is quite capable of reading other new sources. Thank you Phillippa60 for your perspective. I saw a news feed out of USA that claimed Hamas was holding back up to 80 percent of the aid that is going into Gaza. Unfortunately it suits Hamas to create an humanitarian crisis to put pressure on the West to insist on a cease fire.

I can only imagine how I would feel if I was an citizen in Gaza and my home and neighbourhood had been flattened and my friends and family were dying around me, living in fear of the next bomb, and I could not feed my new born because my milk had dried up due to starvation.

Plenty of evidence of this scenario.

Glorianny

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Apparently jokes about conspiracies are forbidden

"4. Food and supplies enter Gaza on a daily basis. Hamas steals food from its own citizens to feed its remaining forces. Israel is not restricting the entry of food and medicines, but at the same time Hamas does not allow our hostages to receive medicines, food and Red Cross visits as per International Law."

Israel is restricting food, it is also restricting medicines . I don't think anyone knows how the hostages are being treated but I hope they are being well but I have no confidence that they are.

Where does the info re food restrictions and medicines come from?

You don’t have to look far on news outlets and humanitarian internet sites to see the evidence that Israel is indeed restricting food and medicine into Gaza. Why have countries resorted to the inefficient method of air drops?

Where does the info come from, hospital staff surely not believed

I posted a link to a UN Press release
This is the latest Israel has allowed the use of. a military road to transport aid But
U.N. spokesman Stephane Dujarric said on Tuesday that the U.N. and aid groups were "working to deliver desperately needed assistance, despite ongoing fighting and Israeli bombardment, as well as insecurity, frequent border closures and access constraints that continue to impede safe and efficient aid operations
This is from a press release www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-uses-new-land-route-israel-reach-northern-gaza-2024-03-12/

Anniebach

Where does the info re food restrictions and medicines come from?

I think it comes from everywhere apart from the Israeli government.

Yes Jackiest. I find much gives me much doubt

I suppose it is comforting to think the reports from so many agencies are untrue, Sadly I think the reality is probably much worse and the eventual death toll from starvation and disease will be huge, most of them children.

"I don't think anyone knows how the hostages are being treated but I hope they are being well but I have no confidence that they are."

Actually we do know quite a lot from the testimony of those released. We can only imagine how much worse it is now after 160 days. People in their 80s! Not sure how they will survive.

"I'm sorry Phillippa60 I can only assume that your lack of correct information is caused by the propaganda being issued to Israeli citizens."

This comment just shows how little you know about the situation in Israel. Israel is a "radical democracy" by which I mean anyone can (and does) say anything about anything. There is no "propaganda". It is not Russia or North Korea! When an official (Netanyahu, the Chief of Staff, the IDF Spokesman..) speaks, it is not taken as gospel (although the IDF do have a lot more credibility here than Netanyahu!). Every word is pulled apart, analyzed, critiqued. We have free journalism who expose every single aspect of what is going on here. 10 Israelis, 15 opinions!
So no, there is no propaganda.

And the less said about the UN, the better.
It has taken them 5 months to finally admit to the sexual abuse carried out by Hamas on October 7th.
And it has been proven that their agency, UNWRA, includes Hamas terrorists and supporters who took part in the massacre. And hostages were held in the homes of UNWRA teachers and other officials! All confirmed by the victims themselves.

It has been reported here that the total devastation of Gaza is hidden from the population by Israel media because if it was there would surely be more compassion for tens of thousands of innocent people who have been and are being killed daily. 0ver 30,000 dead so far, mainly women snd children as well as thousand more uncounted, under the rubble or those wounded with no medical help hospitals having been bombed and medical staff taken prisoner. People with no shelter, starving, no water! No medication, no energy. Why are the rest if the world dropping food from planes , what will happen with the boat coming from Cyprus loaded with aid to Gaza. If Israel wasn’t holding up the lorries there woukd be no need for all this,

Likewise am curious why we don’t hear about Israeli civilians killed by Hamas in the months since 7 October. I have looked but the only casualties reported were those on 7th October.

As for ‘humanitarian’ islands created by Israel in central Gaza while the south is bombed, words fail.

West Bank will be next and the violence from Israeli settlers to palistinians will not bring peace but recruit more to the cause of a Palestinian state.

What happened on 7 October was terrible of course it was, but I can’t help wondering how all the necessary preparations over a period of time could ever have been missed.

There's lots of reports from reliable sources that contradict the post by P60. Haaretz is a good source but the Netanyahu government is trying to shut it down saying it's undermining the war! Netanyahu is charged with corruption involving paying to buy influence from the Israeli media moguls. Check it out, you don't have to do much work to get this evidence it's there for anyone who wants to know the truth rather than be reassured it's not happening. The Gazans are being starved because Israel is not letting aid in.

Nothing- absolutely nothing justifies what is happening now in Gaza and increasingly the West Bank. Thank god for mobile phones - because without this on the ground footage there would be so much that we would not see.

I have my own moral compass and can make sufficient judgement to know that the savagery taking place now is wrong .
Nothing good will ever come of it- the legacy it will leave will be a generation of children (those left) who will grow up full of hatred towards the perpetrators.

It is a disaster.

UN is using a new route into Gaza with aid

Airdrops have been ongoing mainly by USA, but other countries including U.K. have also been involved.

Israeli Times is reporting that the border in Northern Gaza is opened for aid to enter.

Whitewavemark2 it is definitely a disaster for all involved.

Before 7th October the Palestinians had been attacking Israel periodically for decades, if 5 Israelis were killed they would strike back and 50 or 100 Palestinians would die. So it went on nobody expected a major attack but Israeli response has been exactly the same, including soldiers maybe 2000 killed and at least 30,000 Palestinians die and most of Gaza destroyed in the process. Nobody outside Israel expected such a hard response but it happened

Palestinians have to live peacefully in Israel or it will continue way into the future, the more attacks the harder the response will be. Part of that process means that Israel has to treat the Palestinians fairly and that does not mean allowing an outside extremist group like Hamas to get power

The reason I simply don’t believe Israel is that we know that at the Rafah border there are hundreds of trucks lining up loaded with aid, been there for weeks - Israel could and legally should have allowed them in - hasn’t happened - or at least at such a slow rate that it is causing severe hardship, and now starvation and dehydration.

Why on earth is the world taking part in such a hopelessly inadequate and vastly expensive air and sea drop when the answer is blindingly obvious.

The world should force the Rafah border open - it isn’t Israel’s country to say yes or no. It belongs to the Palestinians.

That is a crime of war.

Is it not the case that although Egypt controls the border Israel needs to approve aid being allowed through?

Yes it’s a disaster for all for generations to come. It’s like a huge prison camp for the people of Gaza I hadn’t realised that before.They're stuck in the middle of a political nightmare.

Indiscriminate bombing, cutting off water & electricity, refusing to allow humanitarian aid through, at least 30,000 dead, many of them children.
Is this a proportionate response? Of course not.
Should Israel have the right to blockade Gaza's access to the sea, not just since Oct 7th, but since 2007? Absolutely not.
Meantime, in the West Bank Palestinians are being driven from their homes and more than 300 have been killed by Israeli settlers and IDF since October.
Is there any justification for this? Of course not.
Is what Israel is doing self defence?
Absolutely not!!