Is JK Rowling pushing the boundaries too far?

Syracute I don't see hate. Where do you get the impression we don't read about or see transpeople? Have you seen videos of the protests at every Let Women Speak event? Have you read the placards that are held aloft and heard the screamed chants? If you haven't then maybe you should check some out. You can't really think that a sign saying "Terfs can choke on my girldick" or the ones held up outside the Scottish Parliament saying 'Kill Terfs" are acceptable and deserve our understanding?

What about those males who cheat females out of sporting awards? Or those male sex offenders whose crimes are recorded under the woman column because they say they are women. Don't you have any sympathy or understanding for a woman being compelled to refer to her rapist as 'she' and "her penis'? My sympathy is completely with a woman who is figuratively raped for a second time by the legal system. That makes me justifiably angry and should any decent human being.

I do have sympathy for any individual with genuine gender dysphoria, but that's a tiny number and doesn't include the much greater number of men wanting to publicly indulge their fetishes.

So much anger and hate here . Very sad . Maybe if posters watch and read about the trans population and what they go through there would be more understanding . You certainly can’t think it would be safe for a trans female to be in a men’s toilet or trans male in a woman’s toilet . In most cases you really won’t know the difference . I follow a few on social media to get their insight . I do think Rowling is creating more hate with her remarks .

Glorianny

Apparently I haven't said what rights transpeople are denied.
Well read the thread

Transmen have to comply with any designation you decide. The fact that they have cervixes but don't want to be called women can't be recognised. The fact that they bleed can't be recognised. The fact that they give birth can't be recognised.

But you have not indicated what rights are denied to transpeople - what you have done is suggest what rights you think people on this thread would refuse them.

And, as Rosie51 indicated - transmen will know that they are women regardless of how they identify.

Medical information brochures / leaflets, etc, containing general information for public consumption, are generic and therefore not aimed specifically at the individual - therefore there is no need to be sensitive about gender identity if the subject matter is related to biological sex.

As far as the medical profession is concerned - once you are admitted on a personal level into the system, one of the first questions you will be asked is, "how do you like to be addressed", and it is then that you can indicate how you identify, which will be respected, because it will be written on your medical notes. At that point you become an individual. And it is at that point that the medical 'language' can be accommodated to your specific gender need / identity.

You say, frequently, that we view transwomen as the wrong sort of women an accusation which is somewhat meaningless in the context of what we are debating, but it suits your purpose in attempting to paint us as bigots. If we do not accept that transwomen are women, then they cannot be the 'wrong sort' because we do not accept that they are women. That is the logic.

And again, as Rosie51 points out, the descriptive, women, will cease to have any meaning whatsoever if any man - at any time - based on whatever motivates him to do so, decides that he is one. The word, woman will be so mobile that it really will be meaningless. And this will be because a minority of men have appropriated it to accommodate their feelings.

Doodledog

Is there a bingo prize that goes higher than the jackpot? If so, the flounce has just got me the hat trick . It's all on this thread - the DARVO, the insults, the tropes, the accusations and now the flounce.

B I N G O -- well done you!

You wrote a wonderful explanation and won the Bingo!

Just take care, Martin Neismoller warned about not supporting others
What a shame some of the impact of the flounce has been sabotaged by getting his name wrong too (like so much else)
It’s Pastor Martin Niemöller

He rather ironically (on this thread) escaped and hid in the toilet.

Oh gosh. Glad he was ok?

Yes I agree fancy that, men are at risk of Male violence for many reasons, DH is tall but would not know what to do in a fight (one of the reasons I like him) he once described a situation where he was cornered in a deserted bus station by a violent drunk and it sounded utterly horrific.

Is there a bingo prize that goes higher than the jackpot? If so, the flounce has just got me the hat trick . It's all on this thread - the DARVO, the insults, the tropes, the accusations and now the flounce.

And that’s how to do it Glorianny!👏👏👏
If you can’t answer questions because answering would mean you have to admit something is true, then leave the thread.

fancy that
Galaxy’s post explains it perfectly.

I’m not aware of anyone on here who says all TIM are the same, except in the biological sense, that they’re male.

The problem is that those TW who have hit the headlines for
- cheating their way into female sport to deny females the right to win,
- lying their way into female safe places including toilets, changing rooms and hospital wards,
- claiming awards that say for example *best female award,
- suddenly claiming to be TW when they’ve been arrested for rape or violence against others and demanding to be placed in female prisons,
- threatening violence against females and their families as IW regularly does whilst lying that he’s a woman,
are the TIM that people see exemplifying what TIM are.
It’s unfair that those TIM you mention are categorised in the same class as those I’ve described, but read Glorianny’s endless claims that you can’t tell the difference and you’ll hopefully understand why Galaxy’s post is so correct.

Galazy. No. Because only people born female should be in them.

I do feel sorry for some people born men sometimes, as weaker built men in particular or even medium built men, are sometimes scared of the heavier built man.
That never occured to me until I met my DH. I didnt realise there was such a thing occuring.

Not sure if I have now gone wildly off point or not.

They are all Male. We dont with regard to female spaces make distinction between nice men and horrible men.

For me, on this thread, there has not been enough distinction made between those transwomen who are going quietly about thier life, not meaning harm to other people[I may not agree with what they are choosing to do, but that is their business]

and those transwomen who do mean harm to others.

To me, they are two distinct groups.

Lots of left wing lesbians I think.

I have no idea who they are. But I dont doubt that some people go beyond the teachings of the Bible, into their own ideals.
Twas always thus.
It is talked about in the last Book of the Bible, Revelation.

The Christian right wing have chosen transpeople as their first target because they are easier to challenge. You may not realise it but the forces behind condemning transpeople are against all non-conformity. Trans is just the first step.

Who are the Christian right wing please? Which groups or country are you meaning?

While you're here, would you please answer some of the questions in my post upthread? Or are you ignoring them because you realise that your arguments have no basis whatsoever?

Well you've got your answer Doodledog. I suspect your second question is the truth, just like the request for a list of the rights that transpeople don't have couldn't be answered.

Well I suppose that's one way of not answering perfectly reasonable questions and I do love the irony Glorianny bearing in mind your posts telling others what they think, believe or say, telling those who disagree with you that they don't support the trans community and that we only support some women.

All rights are fragile, trans rights are especially so I disagree because there aren't any rights that other sections of society have, whether they're in the majority or the minority, that the trans community don't also have.

I'm convinced I'm right because of the course of all the threads we've had here on GN on anything trans, the question has been
asked time and time again and not once has anyone informed us what rights the the trans community are being denied, that aren't denied to anyone else.

GrannyGravy13

NanKate

What I want to know if why SOME transwomen are so vicious, threatening, overpowering and generally frightening. They do nothing for their cause. Why can’t they just transition and get on with their lives.

That as they say is the million dollar question…

I think it comes from the same basis all prejudice does-"My ideas are right and I don't have to listen to others"
There's an awful lot of it about and it isn't limited to transwomen.

Anyone waiting for an answer can wait.
I don't propose to answer anyone who has posted anything which tells me what I think, believe or say, refers to me as misogynistic or as not supporting women.
I'm tired of the accusations and hypocrisy. I've tried to be reasonable but honestly the list of women you don't want to listen to is steadily increasing.

Just take care, Martin Neismoller warned about not supporting others. The Christian right wing have chosen transpeople as their first target because they are easier to challenge. You may not realise it but the forces behind condemning transpeople are against all non-conformity. Trans is just the first step.

In Ohio a Bill about High school sport says anyone accused of being transgender must submit to a genital inspection.
www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/christian-rights-mounting-attacks-trans-youth-rcna65323

All rights are fragile, trans rights are especially so.
Now I'm off this thread. Have fun

Cossy
The answer to public loos is supply mixed and women and men only.
That has been suggested, but where do you suppose the TIM who cause the problems would choose to go?
Posters who claim you cannot tell, ignore the fact that those TIM who cause the problems make it clear that they are male and that they have the right to be in female restrooms. It’s another example of their You must accept our lies or else!!

MayBee70

Imo it isn’t a personal obsession but is the result of knowing what it’s like to be abused and to be afraid of someone? If I eg was alone in a ladies toilet late at night and a man who identified as a woman came in I’d feel both uncomfortable and afraid.

Why would you?

Many many men identify as women and would not dream of abusing a woman or deliberately set out to make them feel uncomfortable.

The answer to public loos is supply mixed and women and men only.

No one should be scared or uncomfortable, neither biological women nor men identifying as women.

I’m on the fence with JKR, but I absolutely agree that legislation should protect ALL.

IMO Nankate because they don't want to be women. The characteristics you referred too are seldom found in women which makes them for me all the more disturbing when they're exhibited by men who claim to 'feel' like a woman and want to live like one; whatever that means.

I think that it shows that a lot of the trans agenda (as opposed to people who genuinely believe that they are of the opposite sex) is not, for TRAs, about 'living as' women, but about redefining what women are, which is why there is so much resistance. It's misogyny writ large.

NanKate

What I want to know if why SOME transwomen are so vicious, threatening, overpowering and generally frightening. They do nothing for their cause. Why can’t they just transition and get on with their lives.

That as they say is the million dollar question…

What I want to know if why SOME transwomen are so vicious, threatening, overpowering and generally frightening. They do nothing for their cause. Why can’t they just transition and get on with their lives.