Is JK Rowling pushing the boundaries too far?

I can't find who besides Glorianny referred to pink leggings. Can anyone direct me?

Genitalia DO show up under stretchy leggings/trousers, BTW, just as a tight sweater has been proved by many women to accentuate their mammary glands or their labia (there is a word for the latter effect, but I can't think of it offhand.)

Well done GrannyGravy there you are Glorianny pink leggings.

Just one example, many more are available online.

Smileless2012

Trans women are free Glorianny. They are free to dress like women, to 'feel' like women (whatever that means) and to 'live' like women as far as they can and I don't see anyone on GN who has ever said they can't.

I agree that no one is free until everyone's free but as trans women's freedom isn't being curtailed, I don't see how this is relevant.

You don't have to be an intersectional feminist to recognise that all forms of discrimination matter, you don't have to be a feminist at all for that matter, but what I honestly don't understand are the self declared intersectional feminists who contribute to these discussions, and go on and on about discrimination and yet support the discrimination of women by some members of the trans community.

I don't support any discrimination. But the obvious inaccuracies and pure prejudice exhibited against transwomen on these threads is pure discrimination and I cannot accept it. Pink leggings! Honestly!!?

Trans women are free Glorianny. They are free to dress like women, to 'feel' like women (whatever that means) and to 'live' like women as far as they can and I don't see anyone on GN who has ever said they can't.

I agree that no one is free until everyone's free but as trans women's freedom isn't being curtailed, I don't see how this is relevant.

You don't have to be an intersectional feminist to recognise that all forms of discrimination matter, you don't have to be a feminist at all for that matter, but what I honestly don't understand are the self declared intersectional feminists who contribute to these discussions, and go on and on about discrimination and yet support the discrimination of women by some members of the trans community.

fancythat

*Those trans women you speak of who stand by women are not under fire.* Elegran

There are those who see ‘misgendering’ transwomen as a hate crime, and would like to see women punished for doing so. The question of the thread is whether by standing by those women and lending them her status and fame by repeating their words and inviting arrest and punishment herself (which would make the news and show the idiocy of the Scottish legislation) JKR is pushing the boundaries Doodledog.

VS, I do wonder if you see all minority groups automatically as "victims", that all need protecting from the general population?
Apologies if I have got that wrong.

The ruling classes and the mega rich are minorities, perhaps VioletSky will start campaigning for their protection…

Those trans women you speak of who stand by women are not under fire. Elegran

There are those who see ‘misgendering’ transwomen as a hate crime, and would like to see women punished for doing so. The question of the thread is whether by standing by those women and lending them her status and fame by repeating their words and inviting arrest and punishment herself (which would make the news and show the idiocy of the Scottish legislation) JKR is pushing the boundaries Doodledog.

VS, I do wonder if you see all minority groups automatically as "victims", that all need protecting from the general population?
Apologies if I have got that wrong.

Glorianny I can never and will never recognise a man in a dress who refers to his girl dick a woman.

If you want to that is entirely up to you.

Elegran

VioletSky

Imagine Elegran being the person who stood back and allowed the whole demographic of women to be vilified by the actions of a few... And then you will easily understand why I would defend all those trans women who stand by women and just want acceptance as who they are, not what is in their pants

Those trans women you speak of who stand by women are not under fire.

It is the ones whose reaction to a lesbian who they want sex with but who doesn't fancy them is to say that of course they should have sex with them because they are women too.

Or the ones who threaten to forcible use the "girl dick" that they have in their pants, as punishment.

Or the ones who send death threats to someone who says they don't argue with a trans person's right to look, speak, think or love as they want to, but that they can't accept that they have been magically transformed into the opposite sex.

Or the ones who would sell binders to a pre-adolescent to bind her breasts to try to stop them developing, or prescribe for her (or him) puberty-delaying drugs which can have the effect of making them sterile for the rest of their lives, even if they change their minds when they become reconciled to their adult sex (even enthusiastic about it).

Or the ones who want it made a criminal offence if, when a child in their care says they would have preferred to be born the opposite sex, they don't automatically and instantly affirm this and actively encourage it, without going more deeply into just what aspects of the difference the child would prefer, what they believe would be changed if they did transition, and whether there could be lifestyle changes that didn't include the most drastic alterations. That is what is proposed in a bill shortly to be formulated in the Scottish Parliament.

This.

This says it all.

Thank you Elegran

Oh dear it's the "we like nice trans women" argument again. This, coming after all the posts about Adam's apples, pink tights and genitals and two year olds being able to tell, would be hilarious were it not for the fact that the unconscious bias it exposes is what feeds discrimination and oppression.
As for the old chestnut about feminism. Feminism was never just about establishing rights for women, it was always about changing a system to make things different. From the suffragettes who recognised men cared more about property than people, through the 70s feminists who wanted to break the patriarchy, to today's intersectional feminists who realise it is all forms of discrimination that matter, feminism has never been so narrow minded,
In the words of one great woman.
"Nobody's free until everybody's free" Fannie Lou Harmer's words matter just as much today for transwomen and natal women as they ever did.

One of our GS’s was obsessed with everything pink, including having his nails painted (pink), along with his favourite toy a doll and pram.

His parents just let him get on with it, his elder brother thought it was hilarious. He is now a well rounded teenager into football, sports and girls.

Elegran Or the ones who want it made a criminal offence if, when a child in their care says they would have preferred to be born the opposite sex, they don't automatically and instantly affirm this and actively encourage it, without going more deeply into just what aspects of the difference the child would prefer, what they believe would be changed if they did transition, and whether there could be lifestyle changes that didn't include the most drastic alterations. That is what is proposed in a bill shortly to be formulated in the Scottish Parliament.
This is one of the scariest aspects, this total immediate affirmation or you're a criminal. Affirmation is reinforcement of something which if left to itself and treated in a gentle understanding way might well resolve differently. We don't trust children to know what's best for them in other areas...... we don't let them drink alcohol, eat nothing but chocolate and pizza, let them determine whether or not they'll bother going to school, decide their own bedtimes and how late they may stay out at night....as for tattoos the UK is in total agreement that's illegal, even with parental permission, for under 18s.

All trans women are in women's prisons and sports?
Eh? Nobody has said anything of the kind. It’s yet more gaslighting and twisting of words.

There are those who see ‘misgendering’ transwomen as a hate crime, and would like to see women punished for doing so. The question of the thread is whether by standing by those women and lending them her status and fame by repeating their words and inviting arrest and punishment herself (which would make the news and show the idiocy of the Scottish legislation) JKR is pushing the boundaries.

As evidenced by the word twisting, insults and sheer nastiness on the thread, it is clear that some TRAs will stop at nothing to silence feminists who are fighting the erasure of women, so it is clear to me that no, she is not going too far. I admire her greatly for her stand, which, without her having had to do anything has exposed that idiocy for what it is.

VioletSky

Imagine Elegran being the person who stood back and allowed the whole demographic of women to be vilified by the actions of a few... And then you will easily understand why I would defend all those trans women who stand by women and just want acceptance as who they are, not what is in their pants

Those trans women you speak of who stand by women are not under fire.

It is the ones whose reaction to a lesbian who they want sex with but who doesn't fancy them is to say that of course they should have sex with them because they are women too.

Or the ones who threaten to forcible use the "girl dick" that they have in their pants, as punishment.

Or the ones who send death threats to someone who says they don't argue with a trans person's right to look, speak, think or love as they want to, but that they can't accept that they have been magically transformed into the opposite sex.

Or the ones who would sell binders to a pre-adolescent to bind her breasts to try to stop them developing, or prescribe for her (or him) puberty-delaying drugs which can have the effect of making them sterile for the rest of their lives, even if they change their minds when they become reconciled to their adult sex (even enthusiastic about it).

Or the ones who want it made a criminal offence if, when a child in their care says they would have preferred to be born the opposite sex, they don't automatically and instantly affirm this and actively encourage it, without going more deeply into just what aspects of the difference the child would prefer, what they believe would be changed if they did transition, and whether there could be lifestyle changes that didn't include the most drastic alterations. That is what is proposed in a bill shortly to be formulated in the Scottish Parliament.

For goodness sake VS where in Galaxy's post that you've re posted does it say that all trans women are in women's prisons and sports?

Every time women want to meet and protect women's hard won rights, these gatherings are protested by hordes of angry transpeople and their allies, including the thugs who enjoy being aggressive and violent towards women under the cloak of being "on the right side" but who don't actually care about transpeople at all. Transpeople have exactly the same rights as anyone else, nobody ever says what rights other women and men have that they don't. People who equate women's rights as being anti-trans must therefore believe trans rights are anti-women.

Stating that men arent welcome in womens sports etc doesnt mean every single transwomen is sporty, it's really hard to discuss this if you make up things I have said.

Galaxy

I dont. They are men. That isnt condemning them, it's just stating a fact. I dont care if they are nice or not. David Attenborough seems a very nice man. He is not welcome in womens prisons or sports either.
If ginger men were asking to enter womens spaces I would say no.

All trans women are in women's prisons and sports?

Eloethan

I believe Rowling has the right to express her opinions and I do not agree that she should be hounded for doing so.

However, I think the furore about trans people is unnecessary. Most women - and trans people - are in more danger from "normal" heterosexual men than from the relatively small number of trans people. I think women should be more concerned about that.

I think we are capable of thinking about more than one issue at a time.

I dont. They are men. That isnt condemning them, it's just stating a fact. I dont care if they are nice or not. David Attenborough seems a very nice man. He is not welcome in womens prisons or sports either.
If ginger men were asking to enter womens spaces I would say no.

Eloethan. That doesn't take into account the propensity of testosterone for enhancing the assertiveness and aggressive tendencies of those who have it in abundance, and increasing their tendency to take advantage of the weaknesses of those who don't have that abundancy, leading to confrontation, conflict and annexation of resources.

If women don't resist the dismantlement of their defences, bit by bit they will lose the security that has taken centuries to slowly build up.

Imagine Elegran being the person who stood back and allowed the whole demographic of women to be vilified by the actions of a few... And then you will easily understand why I would defend all those trans women who stand by women and just want acceptance as who they are, not what is in their pants

Indeed there are such women, VS and their attitudes reflect badly on the whole sex. The same is true of those of the male sex, (and also of those transwomen) who vilify the female sex for wanting safe places.

I believe Rowling has the right to express her opinions and I do not agree that she should be hounded for doing so.

However, I think the furore about trans people is unnecessary. Most women - and trans people - are in more danger from "normal" heterosexual men than from the relatively small number of trans people. I think women should be more concerned about that.

I missed out an "it" there between "having" and "blown off" which may have confused some posters and lowered the tone of the discussion. Sorry.