Dr. Hilary Cass - report re trans.

From the Telegraph today:

“ THE NHS’s most senior adviser on transgender health refused to share data about his clinic’s patients with the Cass Review.

Dr Derek Glidden is clinical director of the Nottingham Centre for Transgender Health.

Dr Hilary Cass said efforts to track the journeys of about 9,000 children who went on to be seen by adult services were “thwarted” by the refusal of clinics to provide evidence. Researchers were trying to establish the long-term consequences of medical interventions by seeking data from adult clinics, which take patients from the age of 16.

Six of the seven clinics which run adult gender services refused to comply with the request.

They include the Nottingham Centre for Transgender Health, one of the leading centres in the country.

Dr Derek Glidden, its clinical director, refused to comply despite being NHS England’s gender dysphoria national speciality adviser.

He chairs the NHS England clinical Reference Group on gender dysphoria, while another of its five members, Dr Laura Charlton, the clinical lead at Leeds Gender Identity Clinic, also refused to participate in the research.

The Nottingham clinic has been key to the rollout of a wave of experimental trans services. It has links to the Indigo Gender Service in Manchester, which describes itself as “trans and non-binary led”, and to a recent scheme in Sussex that has put GPs in charge.

Campaigners have raised concerns about the pilot schemes, with one likening them to “the Wild West”, saying responsibility for life-changing decisions was being handed to those with inadequate specialist knowledge.”

I think you only have to read a few of the trans gender threads on GN to realise why trans people want to keep quiet and not share their medical records. I assume the clinic is very aware of their requirement. Why would you if you are constantly linked with sex offenders, berated about lady dicks, informed you can never be the gender you have transitioned to, tell anyone about your medical history? Not to mention all the things said about transwomen keeping quiet-well that's what they are doing.

Syracute thanks for the sources.
So it is being defined by them as a mental health issue.

Mollygo

^Being told to go to Cahms or mental health services is a joke as they are not able to cope with those already on their waitlists^

This is true for all mental health patients and it’s causing immense stress for all of them.
I’m just checking; Are you saying that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue?

No, I am not saying that gender dysphoria is a mental health dysphoria. This is what a letter is saying from the NHS . It quotes that anyone who is suffering from gender dysphoria distress should refer themselves to their GP, mental heath services crisis team or CAHMS. Found this in a BBC article and the Guardian.

Why would anyone be asked what their genitals looked like for a research project? All I can think of is to find out their self-perception, as otherwise it would make sense to have a medical person look at them, so that whatever was being looked at could be recorded objectively. I am at a loss to know what sort of research would require this level of intrusiveness though. I don't suppose you have a link?

Caleo

It is wrong to expect anyone at all to discuss what their genitals look like.

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Actually, since modern medicine discovered plastic surgery, and the Pill .sex change is an option.

I assume you've educated professor Lord Robert Winston on your superior knowledge, as he has stated categorically that you cannot change sex.

Imagine if cisgenders were expected to tell researchers what their genitalia looked like!

Rudeness of referring to cis has already been dealt with and apologised for, but why would anyone ask a male or a female about their genitalia?
They aren’t lying about their sex, so you’d know without asking.
With a TW they might have retained male equipment, or had a construction likewise a TM might have retained natural female equipment or had a construction.
If they referred to themselves more accurately as Trans-identified~Man- TIM, a man who is male but says he is a woman, or a TIW, a woman who is female but says she is a man, it would be more honest and remove some of the need for questions.

No it isn’t, Caleo!! You can change gender, although some people prefer to declare that they have done so rather than put any serious effort into the very difficult process, but no matter how much plastic surgey or hormones you have, your chromosomes will ALWAYS stay the same! They declare your sex and cannot be changed. Ever.

No one can change sex. Building treatment on a lie is also part of the problem. It is a cruel thing to tell people.

Mollygo wrote:
"Where is your call for support for them Caleo, or don’t they matter for you, because they are female?"

'Whataboutery', Mollygo, is ad hominem .

It is wrong to expect anyone at all to discuss what their genitals look like.

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Actually, since modern medicine discovered plastic surgery, and the Pill .sex change is an option.

Sorry about the jargon !

Please stop it with the ‘cisgender’ !
Absolutely. This is what I meant about try trans lobby using words to control the narrative. If we refer to people as either 'cis' or 'trans' we are buying into the fiction that sex is an option. It really isn't.

Caleo

Research under conditions of strict decency and respect is very well but some trans people get asked about their private genitals! Imagine if cisgenders were expected to tell researchers what their genitalia looked like!

Please stop it with the ‘cisgender’ !
It’s entirely relevant for trans people to be honest about their genitals surely.

Galaxy

Terms such as Cisgender is part of the religion. It's why we are in this situation in the first place.

Hear, hear

Rosie51

My understanding was that the clinic refused to contact patients on behalf of the study to gain permission for follow up information to be gathered, even anonymised. Cass wasn't asking for names and addresses.

Yes, that's what I thought, too.

It's just wriggling. As I said, there is no sensible reason why anyone would refuse to co-operate with research that could potentially benefit them. It would be perverse. And how any poster here can know that transpeople opted out of being included in research is beyond me.

Caleo

There is a need for social support for children ,and adults too, who are troubled by any feelings that are deemed by others to be unacceptable.

Exactly Caleo. So many females have feelings that are deemed to be unacceptable by those determined to put men first.

Feelings of anxiety about their own safety.

Feelings of concern about the safety of children who have been rushed into irreversible changes to their bodies without fully understanding the future implications for their lives.

Feelings of anger about the actions of those TIM who cheat to deprive females of their just rewards.

But those children and adults with those feelings are shouted down by the trans lobby as being transphobic, or attacked, threatened or hounded by TRA.

Where is your call for support for them Caleo, or don’t they matter for you, because they are female?

Terms such as Cisgender is part of the religion. It's why we are in this situation in the first place.

Research under conditions of strict decency and respect is very well but some trans people get asked about their private genitals! Imagine if cisgenders were expected to tell researchers what their genitalia looked like!

There is a need for social support for children ,and adults too, who are troubled by any feelings that are deemed by others to be unacceptable.

Not all parents, peers, and schools are supportive . Some children get rejected even by their mothers and fathers. Religious sects may be especially condemnatory. Childline is good and there is a need for this sort of intervention to be extended to safe housing, safe trains and buses, safe classsrooms, safe hotels and toilets, safe policing, safe employment and educational opportunities, and so forth.

Transiting is a burden for a child to bear and some children urgently need practical help such as I described.

Excellent point eazybee.

My understanding was that the clinic refused to contact patients on behalf of the study to gain permission for follow up information to be gathered, even anonymised. Cass wasn't asking for names and addresses.

If trans people desire a better understanding of their concerns then obviously they need to co operate with research.

Well, obviously neither of us can speak for them, can we? Are you aware of the reluctance you mention? It would be odd if so, as opting out is also anonymous.

But I can see no reason why someone would refuse to co-operate anonymously with research into something that could potentially benefit them.

Doodledog

No, I wouldn't want identifiable data made public, but there is no obvious reason why data couldn't be anonymised, is there? It's perfectly usual in medical information to say that X% of smokers get lung disease, for instance, without saying that Ms D Dog of 7 Acacia Avenue Hometown smoked 20 a day for 50 years and died aged 64 of emphysema, is there?

Many medical papers are anonymised and this could easily be done in this case, as I am sure you are aware.

I am aware. I am also aware that even that even anonymised data cannot be used unless the patient has agreed to be part of the research. Given the negative attitudes many have to transpeople I can understand their reluctance to be involved in any way.