Dr. Hilary Cass - report re trans.

Mamie 👏👏👏

Glorianny

Callistemon21

Mamie

Apologies for adding to the thread derailment but:
As a SENCO in a state school I was supporting children with dyslexia in the late seventies and in our LA we were working with a specialist Educational Psychologis, the Dyslexia Association and peripatetic teachers. I then became an adviser and worked with a Paediatrician with specialist knowledge of dyspraxia in the late 8Os, as the condition was increasingly recognised in our schools. Having had the opportunity to work on a wide regional basis I know from experience, that while provision in LAs varied, there was also a great deal of knowledge and support available.
To return to the topic, I am pleased to see that such a compassionate, informed and pragmatic report is now available to those working in this difficult area.

Thankyou Mamie for your post, yes, the thread was becoming derailed but I think accusations aimed at posters needed to be refuted.
I'm not going to state where I worked, but it was back in the 1960s and early 1970s where I was a trainee and the staff included Educational Psychologists, PSWs, and a teacher who specialised in dyslexia and the problems it could cause.

Just a comment that SENCOs didn't come into being until the 1993 Education act. But heaven forbid I should ask for some accuracy.

That was when it became law that every school should have one Glorianny. We had the title long before that, after we stopped being the "Remedial Teacher". I have the certificates.
We also used the term "specific learning difficulties" which included dyslexia. The Dyslexia Association was extremely helpful, did you not access their resources?
As anyone who has worked with children with learning disabilities, physical disabilities and emotional or behavioural difficulties will know, it is not all about the name, it is what you do that counts.

What a heartbreaking tragedy Mollygo.

This is a comment from the history of Dyslexia from Kings College London.
“^The UK government announced in 1987 that they were dispelling ‘a myth’ – the myth that they did not believe in dyslexia,” said Dr Kirby. “Driven by parents and those with direct personal experience of the condition, the history of dyslexia mirrors that of other conditions, like autism.”^
I can't help contrasting the idea that these conditions' identification and treatment were "driven by parents" with the perception today that somehow trans children are made by parents, rather than parents (as they have done before) identifying the condition earlier than governments

Callistemon21

Mamie

Apologies for adding to the thread derailment but:
As a SENCO in a state school I was supporting children with dyslexia in the late seventies and in our LA we were working with a specialist Educational Psychologis, the Dyslexia Association and peripatetic teachers. I then became an adviser and worked with a Paediatrician with specialist knowledge of dyspraxia in the late 8Os, as the condition was increasingly recognised in our schools. Having had the opportunity to work on a wide regional basis I know from experience, that while provision in LAs varied, there was also a great deal of knowledge and support available.
To return to the topic, I am pleased to see that such a compassionate, informed and pragmatic report is now available to those working in this difficult area.

Thankyou Mamie for your post, yes, the thread was becoming derailed but I think accusations aimed at posters needed to be refuted.
I'm not going to state where I worked, but it was back in the 1960s and early 1970s where I was a trainee and the staff included Educational Psychologists, PSWs, and a teacher who specialised in dyslexia and the problems it could cause.

Just a comment that SENCOs didn't come into being until the 1993 Education act. But heaven forbid I should ask for some accuracy.

A science-based approach, rather than an ideological one. Debate, rather than 'No Debate'. Targeted support rather than a blanket approach. All of those things would be very much better than the way things have been for some time.

Absolutely Doodledog.

Smileless2012
I hope if any parents do take their children out of the UK for help, they do plenty of research. That said I hope that they digest this report in full and are led by the common sense information provided.
This report is too late for the mother with whom we were friendly from my DGD’s time at preschool. He wanted to be a girl so much that at 16 she took him abroad for surgery.
Now she doesn’t have a son. . . or a daughter. The reality of his situation was too much for him and he committed suicide, leaving her carrying a lifetime guilt trip.

Mamie

Apologies for adding to the thread derailment but:
As a SENCO in a state school I was supporting children with dyslexia in the late seventies and in our LA we were working with a specialist Educational Psychologis, the Dyslexia Association and peripatetic teachers. I then became an adviser and worked with a Paediatrician with specialist knowledge of dyspraxia in the late 8Os, as the condition was increasingly recognised in our schools. Having had the opportunity to work on a wide regional basis I know from experience, that while provision in LAs varied, there was also a great deal of knowledge and support available.
To return to the topic, I am pleased to see that such a compassionate, informed and pragmatic report is now available to those working in this difficult area.

Thankyou Mamie for your post, yes, the thread was becoming derailed but I think accusations aimed at posters needed to be refuted.
I'm not going to state where I worked, but it was back in the 1960s and early 1970s where I was a trainee and the staff included Educational Psychologists, PSWs, and a teacher who specialised in dyslexia and the problems it could cause.

Doodledog

I would very much like to think so.

A science-based approach, rather than an ideological one. Debate, rather than 'No Debate'. Targeted support rather than a blanket approach. All of those things would be very much better than the way things have been for some time.

Definitely agree.

It has to be science/biology over ideology especially when dealing with pre-pubescent children.

I would very much like to think so.

A science-based approach, rather than an ideological one. Debate, rather than 'No Debate'. Targeted support rather than a blanket approach. All of those things would be very much better than the way things have been for some time.

Solid comment from Wes Streeting - thanks GrannyGravy. Hopefully the Cass report will engender greater measured debate and more research - particularly longitudinal studies - around the issue of transgender. This could lead to more effective, appropriately targeted support for the young people involved in the future. It should also serve to debunk some of the myths and misinformation about transgender that currently circulate. Polarised arguments of ‘right / wrong’ don’t move anything forward in life. Who knows, perhaps a body of research might demonstrate results that, 50 years in the future, will render today’s toxic debate unbelievable.

Statement from Wes Streeting (Labour MP)

The BBC have quite an informative article on the findings:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68770641

Mollygo

Callistemon21

Sorry Callistemon21 you are so wrong

Sorry, Glorianny, if you had that experience in your area.

However, I am not wrong.

Not wrong at all, except possibly by Geographical area. We managed to get an assessment of dyslexia for my child, way back in the 1990s. It was a struggle, but we got it.
The problem of getting an assessment for children I was teaching remained difficult - with private companies charging parents, to tell them that their child who couldn’t kick a football, or tie shoelaces or a tie (none if which they’d been taught to do) were dyslexic.
We are much better trained to deal with dyslexia now, but none of the several children I’ve had assessed as dyslexic have claimed to be in the wrong body. It concerns me that some parents are already questioning whether their child’s struggles with reading and writing may be to do with them being in the wrong body.

How would you feel if a child was waiting for 5 years for an assessment for dyslexia? Not treatment or help just an assessment.

Callistemon21

^Sorry Callistemon21 you are so wrong^

Sorry, Glorianny, if you had that experience in your area.

However, I am not wrong.

Not wrong at all, except possibly by Geographical area. We managed to get an assessment of dyslexia for my child, way back in the 1990s. It was a struggle, but we got it.
The problem of getting an assessment for children I was teaching remained difficult - with private companies charging parents, to tell them that their child who couldn’t kick a football, or tie shoelaces or a tie (none if which they’d been taught to do) were dyslexic.
We are much better trained to deal with dyslexia now, but none of the several children I’ve had assessed as dyslexic have claimed to be in the wrong body. It concerns me that some parents are already questioning whether their child’s struggles with reading and writing may be to do with them being in the wrong body.

Iam64

LizzieDrip

Thanks LizzieDrip I sometimes feel if I said the moon was not made of green cheese someone would say it was, just because it was me!

Yes, I know what you mean Glorianny. It’s a very sad approach and one which serves to close down open-minded debate.

Oh, The irony of accusing the majority of wanting to close down open minded debate, particularly when open debate on this significant report is being sideline into a discussion on when exactly dyslexia etc was first recognised in most schools

Gloriannie you aren’t alone in wanting proper services without long waiting lists for children. Our family has joined the growing list of families pooling financial resources to ensure a child is seen assessed and helped along with their parents .
From my brief look at the news, we aren’t the only Northern European country re-examining treatment for children with gender dysphoria

I didn't sideline any debate.
I have also brought the debate back to trans issues by highlighting parallels between the historic attitudes to dyslexia and the present trans debate.

Re-examining treatment is fine. Condemning treatment but leaving long waiting lists isn't. Trans children won't go away, and for those who can't afford private care the future looks bleak. I've just looked at my local clinic
Person at the top of the list for initial assessment has waited almost 6 years and hasn't yet an appointment.
Person at top of list for second appointment (diagnosis and treatment proposal) has waited over 5 years and hasn't yet a date.
Quite how those people are coping I don't know

dyslexia, dyscalculia and dyspraxia fall under SpLD now and is the terminology used
there are also lots of people in prison with learning disabilities and/or autism.
lots of care leavers in prison
specific prisons for these with autism or LD
we let a lot of young people down in this country from the minute they are born. I can't see that improving after the meeting I have just sat through!

Dyslexia may or not have been recognised as such some years ago, in some areas, but the methods of “treating/accommodating”it would have been very different anyway.

But, that’s another subject entirely anyway.

Trans related treatments generally involve body changing drugs etc - and no one knows the exact future risks with all that on children’s health.

The report also seems to recognise that social media is having a huge influence, and that the unhappiness in some children can be about a variety of other issues.

Changing their gender won’t make those children any happier.

The report seems to be have been well received by most professionals involved in child care.🙂

LizzieDrip

^Thanks LizzieDrip I sometimes feel if I said the moon was not made of green cheese someone would say it was, just because it was me!^

Yes, I know what you mean Glorianny. It’s a very sad approach and one which serves to close down open-minded debate.

Oh, The irony of accusing the majority of wanting to close down open minded debate, particularly when open debate on this significant report is being sideline into a discussion on when exactly dyslexia etc was first recognised in most schools

Gloriannie you aren’t alone in wanting proper services without long waiting lists for children. Our family has joined the growing list of families pooling financial resources to ensure a child is seen assessed and helped along with their parents .
From my brief look at the news, we aren’t the only Northern European country re-examining treatment for children with gender dysphoria

Doodledog

I am not disagreeing about Dyslexia. I am saying that it has nothing to do with the phraseology used by trans children, which I believe has not come from the children themselves.

Words and phrases are important because they represent concepts, and removing words restricts the nuances with which we can communicate. Conversely, creating a vocabulary drives the discourse - eg during Covid we quickly started talking about the R rate, social distancing, anti-vaxxers and so on. Mapping changes in vocabulary onto cultural changes can be very enlightening - another example would be looking at the vocabulary surrounding race.

In the case of trans issues, the TRAs grabbed the narrative and refused to discuss the topic, and then forced people to use unnecessary pronouns, which suggested complicity with their agenda. The very concept of misgendering is about vocabulary, as is the erasure of words and phrases that define women. Words matter.

I agree that the debate has become toxic, but not that this is because more people on GN are biological realists than not. I would like more people with opposing views to join in, and would always be respectful and as reasonable as possible if they do the same. When people start calling me 'pathetic', continually divert the conversation away from the subject, refuse to answer basic questions yet demand answers to their own, however, then yes, I will push back, as will others. What else are we going to do?

I don't think dyslexia came from children. Parents used it. The children said "I can't read. I'm trying my best." kept losing things, were disorganised. The parents asked for help and didn't get it until they pushed and eventually tests were given. Still a huge number were only found when they went to Higher Ed.

I don't think trans comes from children. I think children say their body doesn't feel right, say they feel like a girl if they are a boy and want to change. Parents use the term trans. As puberty hits the child becomes more distressed at the body changes.

The problems will remain. It would have been good to see some proper services for children and not long waiting lists.

Thanks LizzieDrip I sometimes feel if I said the moon was not made of green cheese someone would say it was, just because it was me!

Yes, I know what you mean Glorianny. It’s a very sad approach and one which serves to close down open-minded debate.

I am not disagreeing about Dyslexia. I am saying that it has nothing to do with the phraseology used by trans children, which I believe has not come from the children themselves.

Words and phrases are important because they represent concepts, and removing words restricts the nuances with which we can communicate. Conversely, creating a vocabulary drives the discourse - eg during Covid we quickly started talking about the R rate, social distancing, anti-vaxxers and so on. Mapping changes in vocabulary onto cultural changes can be very enlightening - another example would be looking at the vocabulary surrounding race.

In the case of trans issues, the TRAs grabbed the narrative and refused to discuss the topic, and then forced people to use unnecessary pronouns, which suggested complicity with their agenda. The very concept of misgendering is about vocabulary, as is the erasure of words and phrases that define women. Words matter.

I agree that the debate has become toxic, but not that this is because more people on GN are biological realists than not. I would like more people with opposing views to join in, and would always be respectful and as reasonable as possible if they do the same. When people start calling me 'pathetic', continually divert the conversation away from the subject, refuse to answer basic questions yet demand answers to their own, however, then yes, I will push back, as will others. What else are we going to do?

Wheniwasyourage

Perhaps a new thread on the topic of dyslexia would be a good idea, Glorianny, and then the discussion of the Cass report wouldn't be diluted.

Good idea.

Then Glorianny can make other assumptions about others' experiences without steering this thread in a different direction.

LizzieDrip

I am going to stick my head above the parapet here and agree with Glorianny. As a teacher in a mainstream school in the ‘80s we were told, by the LA Special Needs Adviser, not to use the term dyslexia but to say specific reading difficulties. Yes, it seems unbelievable today, but 50 years ago dyslexic was not accepted, by many, as actually existing. Arguably, the current trans issue is at that stage now. I expect this option will enrage posters. I read the personal ‘venom’ with which some people address Glorianny because they disagree with her. The current trans threads on GN are extremely one-sided (apart from Glorianny) - I believe there are others who wish to express differing views but do not want to be personally attacked. The trans debate has become toxic IMO, and the people who will suffer will be the youngsters stuck in the middle of it all.

Thanks LizzieDrip I sometimes feel if I said the moon was not made of green cheese someone would say it was, just because it was me!

This is an interesting article from a parent and trans child view
www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/10/mother-criticises-agenda-from-above-cass-report-trans

I like the trans person's view that puberty blockers should not have been the first target, it should be waiting lists.

I wonder does anyone know if private treatment will still be available in the UK?