The matter of Angela Rayner's house sale isn't going away.....

Germanshepherdsmum Sat 13-Apr-24 08:57:52
As I have already said, I would like to know why she refuses to publish the advice she claims to have received, and has not even shown it to Starmer. Should he not be demanding to see it?

Why demand it ? he believes her. Why publish? She chooses not to.

When this comes up I just think how desperate the Tories are that having shovelled like mad all they can find is a mere £1,500 which may or may not have been paid ten years ago. In fact they must have been shaking their heads in despair while saying “let’s give it a go after all it’s all we have”. Then the Tory press helped with their selective investigations and their just as desperate need to fill their pages. Never mind the Tories who couldn’t resist filling their pockets let’s divert attention to a previously working class woman who may or may not have mistakenly or not paid out a sum so small that it wouldn’t have been noticed in the questionable loans, extravagant spending etc that have pervaded this government’s term in office.

I can scarcely believe what I'm reading here. That David Lammy and Diane Abbott dislike white people in this country.

What all of them?

Haven't we moved on from this?

If Rayner had kept her big mouth shut instead of calling for people to be investigated and forced to resign, she would not be in this position now. It’s her own fault she is being investigated.

Primrose53 yes, of course she should know her place, doff her cap, and let the Eton big boys continue with their corruption. Who does she think she is to call them out😱 Her own fault - talk about victim blaming!

Yes Lovetopaint, I agree. The Tories and their puppet press will have been digging for Labour ‘sleaze’ for some time. If this non-story is the best they can come up with … 👍

It’s not a non-story. But she is doing herself no favours by insisting she took advice yet refusing to disclose it. I can’t see how Starmer can defend her without having seen the alleged advice. I am beginning to think it doesn’t exist.

Starmer accepts the word of a colleague not the word of a tory !

In his position, and bearing in mind his profession, he should not be accepting her word. He cannot defend her when asked questions on the basis of what she told him. He cannot defend her without being in full possession of all the facts - not her version of them - and having appropriate advice on both issues.

GSM: - Scott Benton - www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13132613/Ex-Tory-MP-Scott-Benton-suspended-Commons-role-lobbying-sting-setting-election-headache-Rishi-Sunak.html
reportedly offered to lobby ministers on behalf of the gambling industry and leak a confidential policy document for up to £4,000 a month)

Mark Prichard - www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/mark-pritchard-mp-north-macedonia-ats-group-arms-weapons-serbia-bribery-arrest-shefshet-demirovski/
( earns £900 per hour from dodgy arms dealing company)

Quote Germanshepherdsmum Sat 13-Apr-24 10:00:56
In his position, and bearing in mind his profession, he should not be accepting her word. He cannot defend her when asked questions on the basis of what she told him. He cannot defend her without being in full possession of all the facts - not her version of them - and having appropriate advice on both issues.

Why should he not choose what he says to the press ?

Laws have not been broken Wyllow.

Primrose53

If Rayner had kept her big mouth shut instead of calling for people to be investigated and forced to resign, she would not be in this position now. It’s her own fault she is being investigated.

If Rayner kept her big mouth shut, she wouldn't be the asset to the Labour Party that she is.

I must look up the definition of ‘asset’ …

The Rayner issue is trivial witch hunting by the Tory media when compared with a whole raft of misdeeds by Tory MPs including massive underpayment of tax, lockdown parties at No. 10, cash for Parliamentary lobbying, etc. Shows how desperate the Tories are.

If crimes have been committed that is not trivial. If tax evasion has taken place it’s a serious matter, no matter the amount involved. You need to separate crimes from ‘misdeeds’, and tax avoidance from tax evasion.

does David Lammy hate his wife?

The police are investigating the alleged breaking of electoral law, not the tax issues, which are HMRC's responsibility.

The electoral issue is out of time because it should have been investigated within 12 months of the alleged irregularity.

Whoever is behind this is quite clever because it will hang over Rayner's head in the run up to the general election. Undoubtedly, the smears and exaggerations about what she has (or hasn't) done will continue until the case has been heard. That will have the effect of silencing Rayner because every time she says anything about anything the smearers will be waiting and watching with their trolling.

GSM:

Hunt has admitted breaching money-laundering rules brought in by his government, having failed to declare his 50% interest in the property firm to Companies House. Guardian, June 2018

btw I've just looked on rightmove at 3 bed ex authority houses in Stockport, they start as little as 90k, just in case anyone is wondering

Germanshepherdsmum

I must look up the definition of ‘asset’ …

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/26/firm-co-founded-by-jeremy-hunt-broke-law

Makes interesting reading!

Many people assume that if they only own one property and live in it at some point then they can take any capital gain on it tax free. That isn't the case in a number of circumstances e.g. if you marry someone who also owns a property. That seems to be the crux of this “controversy”.

I wonder how many property-owing grans here have married someone who also owned a property and knew that they needed to make a CGT declaration within two years as to which was to be their principle private residence for tax purposes.

It may be that the Rayners didn’t know either and assumed that each would be tax exempt on the one property each of them owned - or were badly advised by someone.

Let’s get this into perspective.

Rayner’s unpaid capital gains tax - at most £3,000 (if anything at all) pales into insignificance beside Nadhim Zahawi’s £5 million tax settlement over his You Gov/ Balshore Investments.

The settlement, made in December 2022 was reported to be £3.7 million in tax plus a 30% penalty of over £1 million. That level of penalty is the top end for carelessness (where HMRC only go back a maximum of six years) and bottom end for deliberate and concealed. The settlement relates to transactions going back to 2006. As I said above, in serious cases, HMRC can go back 20 years so the 30% must have been considered deliberate and concealed rather than careless.

Just to be clear, Zahawi had concealed capital gains of £27 million.

To quote Michael Gove, when he was doing the media round defending Zahawi:

My firm understanding is HMRC have no quibble with Nadhim. He’s paid everything that he should, and, people paying their taxes, that’s not a story – people not paying their taxes, yeah that is a problem.

Really? HMRC’s “quibble” was that Zahawi deliberately concealed capital gains of £27 million.

Note that Zahawi was under investigation for this not just by HMRC but by the National Crime Agency and the Serious Fraud Office. The Cabinet Office had raised a “red flag” about Zahawi’s tax affairs before his appointment as Chancellor on 5 July 2022. He was already under investigation for deliberate and concealed capital gains of £27 million but Johnson still put him in charge of the country’s finances.

In the great scheme of things, whatever Rayner is alleged to have done, it’s gnat’s piddle compared to this. Glass houses and stones come to mind and shows just how desperate the Tory party and right wing media are.

MaizieD

If it's any help, Dan Neidle, a tax expert, wrote an article about the capital gains tax element. It seems it could be a grey area..

taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/02/29/rayner/

Thanks for posting that. It confirmed what I thought. In the worst case scenario, Rayner owes between £1.5k and £3.5k, which is tiny compared with the amounts some other MPs have "forgotten" to pay.

Nevertheless, the current police involvement isn't about tax. It's about her alleged electoral fraud, which should have been investigated within 12 months of the fraud taking place. Unless there's something none of us knows about, it will be thrown out.

Meanwhile, police time has been wasted, but the media smear machine has had an opportunity to go into overdrive.

growstuff I posted about the electoral registration on page three of this discussion. There's more there but in essence:

If you split your time between two homes, you may be able to register to vote at both addresses. For example, you might own two properties and split your time between them, or you might spend time at different family addresses.

What is she alleged to have done wrong?