The matter of Angela Rayner's house sale isn't going away.....

The twitterati are busy sniffing out instances of politicians 'breaking electoral law'. Including John Major in 1968 (😱) registering his address at a house he never ever lived in in order to qualify to be a candidate for the local council (apparently this was featured in a later Panorama programme). Also a more recent tory councillor registered as living at an allotment (you know, a vegetable garden!) To me this indicates the sheer absurdity of the whole affair.

Though judging by the number of ignoramuses on twitter who are claiming the Johnson was ousted for eating a piece of cake I expect some of the mud being slung at Rayner will stick.

Time now to wait for the results of enquiries and that's what Starmer is saying.
No one at present knows whether it's actually a clear cut matter or mired in confusion and contradictions. Or intentionality.

Personally I agree with todays Guardian
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/12/angela-rayner-tories-targeting-labour-deputy-tax-class-shaming

TinSoldier

growstuff I posted about the electoral registration on page three of this discussion. There's more there but in essence:

If you split your time between two homes, you may be able to register to vote at both addresses. For example, you might own two properties and split your time between them, or you might spend time at different family addresses.

What is she alleged to have done wrong?

I don't know what she's alleged to have done wrong - maybe somebody on GN knows exactly which law she's broken and can enlighten us.

I'm not even sure this is about where she registered to vote or which address she gave when she was a candidate to be an MP. Does the great British public know?

LizzieDrip

GSM:

Hunt has admitted breaching money-laundering rules brought in by his government, having failed to declare his 50% interest in the property firm to Companies House. Guardian, June 2018

That is not a crime.

All Rayner supporters can offer in her support is to cite examples of Tory fraud. No-one is disputing or defending them but they are quite rightly questioning Rayner's lack of judgement and her verisimilitude.
Kettle, pot, black?
If she had admitted she had erred when first questioned, apologised and set the matter straight, none of this media interest would have happened. But she lied about receiving tax advice and consequently the less salubrious events in her life would have been exposed.
A role model?
I don't think so.

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

eazybee

All Rayner supporters can offer in her support is to cite examples of Tory fraud. No-one is disputing or defending them but they are quite rightly questioning Rayner's lack of judgement and her verisimilitude.
Kettle, pot, black?
If she had admitted she had erred when first questioned, apologised and set the matter straight, none of this media interest would have happened. But she lied about receiving tax advice and consequently the less salubrious events in her life would have been exposed.
A role model?
I don't think so.

That's not true! I haven't once mentioned any Tory fraud.

What if she didn't err? I bet you don't even know which law was broken. What you have done is prove that once any so-called dirt is in the public domain, people come up with all sorts of other stuff, whether or not it's true.

Maybe somebody could explain why the fact that the house is a former council house is even relevant to a story about breaking electoral law. It isn't, but it's what happens when the smear and gossip mongers get going.

PS. Which less salubrious events in her life?

Angela Rayner has made no secret of getting pregnant as a teenager, her background and the fact she likes to party - she's human, just like most of the voting public.

Dan Neidle, a highly respected tax lawyer, was one of the people Zahawi threatened to sue, in an effort to silence him, if he told the truth about Zahawi’s nefarious tax affairs. I wonder if Zahawi apologised (to Neidle) after he had to pay £5million, tax and penalties, to HRMC???

Surely morally the key question is whether she knowingly defrauded. If the advice she sought at the time was inaccurate no doubt it will come out but proportionality needs to then be applied as to outcomes.

Issues around expenses and second home costs are not unusual in the labyrinthine rules for MP's as we know historically. John Gummer claimed £9.000 for gardening illegally and was later rewarded with a seat in the Lords.

growstuff I don't know what she's alleged to have done wrong - maybe somebody on GN knows exactly which law she's broken and can enlighten us.

Exactly, Wyllow

From what I read on the Electoral Commission website, I don’t believe she has broken electoral law. Nor do I believe she has broken tax law. I know what I am talking about in that regard as it was my profession albeit that I can only go on what information is in the public domain about this. To be guilty of tax evasion, there has to have been a clear decision to wilfully commit a criminal offence to evade taxes. I see no evidence of that yet.

James Daly is another of the 2019 Tory intake and now deputy chair since Lee Anderson’s departure so working under Richard Holden - who is gunning for Rayner as he was for Starmer and Rayner is the Beergate fiasco. Daly seems to be writing letters to Greater Manchester Police and Stockport council over Rayner’s tax and electoral registration. Quite what he is alleging in unclear.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/27/police-review-decision-not-to-investigate-angela-rayner-after-tory-complaint

Note Daly’s declared members interests include a lot of sporting hospitality including two tickets and hospitality at last year’s FA Cup Final, value £3,348 (i.e. more than Rayner’s alleged tax mistake) … paid for by the The Betting and Gaming Council. Why was a backbencher being courted by that particular body? I think Ian Hislop would have something to say about this.

Perhaps Germanshepherdsmum can enlighten us at to exactly what law(s) Angela Raynor is alleged to have broken?

Thanks TinSoldier.

LizzieDrip

Perhaps Germanshepherdsmum can enlighten us at to exactly what law(s) Angela Raynor is alleged to have broken?

The police involvement isn't about tax - it's about electoral law.

I don't know whether people have to give the address where they live most of the time when they register as a candidate. In any case, the investigation is "out of time".

It is alleged that she broke electoral law and may have been guilty of tax evasion Lizzie.

I've now discovered that candidates do have to give their current home address.

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/guidance-candidates-and-agents-uk-parliamentary-general-elections-great-britain/nominations/completing-your-nomination-papers/home-address-form

For all I know (and I stress that I don't know), Rayner could have been spending most of her time in the house she still owned. I have no idea what the state of her marriage was. It could have been turbulent and maybe she decided to leave her husband and live elsewhere. Maybe she doesn't want the public to know about relationships with her husband. I honestly don't know why she gave the address of the house she owned, but I dislike the speculation of people who don't really know either.

Primrose53

Germanshepherdsmum

I must look up the definition of ‘asset’ …

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

What on earth does that mean?

Germanshepherdsmum

It is alleged that she broke electoral law and may have been guilty of tax evasion Lizzie.

The statement about police involvement doesn't mention tax evasion - that's been added in to smear the dirt a bit further.

For all I know (and I stress that I don't know), Rayner could have been spending most of her time in the house she still owned
I only know what neighbours said - that she was never there, did not live there.

zakouma66

Primrose53

Germanshepherdsmum

I must look up the definition of ‘asset’ …

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

What on earth does that mean?

It's plain enough

Callistemon21

^For all I know (and I stress that I don't know), Rayner could have been spending most of her time in the house she still owned^
I only know what neighbours said - that she was never there, did not live there.

I hope she didn't have neighbours like the ones I used to have!

I was asked which laws she was alleged to have broken growstuff, and I replied. I didn’t refer to police involvement, which of course that relates only to the electoral law allegations.

Thanks for answering my question GSM. We’ll just have to wait and see then. As long as she is treated in exactly the same way as other MPs who have acted similarly, then all’s fair.

I agree. In all probability nothing will come of it because if electoral law was broken it’s too late for a prosecution and unless HMRC have reason to suspect deliberate tax evasion the time limit for investigation has passed. She could so easily show that she had advice as regards her tax position and acted on that advice by making it public; any irrelevant personal detail could be redacted. Surely someone in her position who had received such advice would do that? If the advice was incorrect she is not responsible for that provided she disclosed her situation fully to the advisor. A legal opinion always sets out the facts on which the advice is given. The refusal to show the advice raises questions as to whether it exists and therefore whether she is telling the truth, or whether it was based on something short of the full facts.

I read a while back that it was going to be a nasty election campaign and imo the Conservative Party are desperate to find some mud to throw at Labour. This is all they’ve found thus far. Reminds me a bit of Keir and his mums donkeys. Angela is probably one of he most remarkable women in politics and, if she does have to stand down the people that will suffer will be the poor and underprivileged that she champions.