Does Israel want full scale war in the Middle East?

It would have world consequences. I don't think the USA wants one: they also have a degree of influence in Israeli as they supply and have in the past funded weapons. Being cynical, I think they want Israel as a sort of base in the area - without ever putting feet on the ground, which has proved disastrous for them I their past involvements in the area - without full scale war.

I cannot see how this sort of event is in defence of Israel's current regime:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68874070

It is not rocket science. If Hamas cares a damn about their women and children they should simply return hostages and not on a 1-10 basis….1-1 is equitable unless we believe that 1 Israeli life is equivalent to 10 Palestinians. It seems they value their own no more highly than those 1300 Jews they butchered , the initiation of the war that Israel did not want. Get real!

Mawmac

Anniebach

I didn’t say ‘was arrested’ I said ‘can be ‘

Under which law can someone be arrested for wearing a kippah?

For what it’s worth that Jewish activist deserved to be arrested because he was deliberately inciting a confrontation.

If he had been allowed to get mixed up with the demonstrators it could have started a riot, then the police would have been blamed for allowing it to happen.

On the other side of the argument the demonstrations in favour of Hamas has gone on too long, but again if they were banned there would likely be violence so it’s safer to allow properly controlled demonstrations.

Rondoallaturc

It is not rocket science. If Hamas cares a damn about their women and children they should simply return hostages and not on a 1-10 basis….1-1 is equitable unless we believe that 1 Israeli life is equivalent to 10 Palestinians. It seems they value their own no more highly than those 1300 Jews they butchered , the initiation of the war that Israel did not want. Get real!

Does that affect whether there will be a war with Iran?

The police, like us, are human they make mistakes, some of them very bad. But policeman making mistakes are not making laws and cannot make laws.

Katie59 "On the other side of the argument the demonstrations in favour of Hamas has gone on too long, but again if they were banned there would likely be violence so it’s safer to allow properly controlled demonstrations."

If the marches were pro Hamas they would be banned because it is a proscribed organisation. I know you like to say "Hamas is Gaza" but fortunately most (and that includes our present government) don't take such a simplistic view of a complicated situation. I'm attaching a link to the government guidance, do feel free to let them know they are allowing marches in favour of Hamas, perhaps they didn't know (or perhaps they disagree).
www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know

Just a point -

Can we use the long, and specific thread on the London March for those discussions? There needs to be a space - here - to discuss what is actually happening in the Middle East and possible war with Iran etc, there is no space for that elsewhere.

here it is: www.gransnet.com/forums/aibu/1334719-To-think-that-London-or-anywhere-else-for-that-matter-does-not-belong-to-any-one-demographic

Rondoallaturc - yes the hostages should be returned - no it is not OK for anyone to bomb civilians - there is supposed to be a cease fire a pause to allow aid in and for discussion, but killing pregnant women in their home is not OK from anyone.

Rafah, where it occurred, is on the Egypt border as far from Israel as you can get.

growstuff

Rondoallaturc

It is not rocket science. If Hamas cares a damn about their women and children they should simply return hostages and not on a 1-10 basis….1-1 is equitable unless we believe that 1 Israeli life is equivalent to 10 Palestinians. It seems they value their own no more highly than those 1300 Jews they butchered , the initiation of the war that Israel did not want. Get real!

Does that affect whether there will be a war with Iran?

Not in my opinion.

A war will be awaited out in my opinion, by those who wish to avoid a war in Israel. Thus France, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and German (I said Jordan prior, meant German) forces, countries who along with USA don't seem to want a war. Countries that budget their money out in large sums for defense.

foxie48

Katie59 "On the other side of the argument the demonstrations in favour of Hamas has gone on too long, but again if they were banned there would likely be violence so it’s safer to allow properly controlled demonstrations."

If the marches were pro Hamas they would be banned because it is a proscribed organisation. I know you like to say "Hamas is Gaza" but fortunately most (and that includes our present government) don't take such a simplistic view of a complicated situation. I'm attaching a link to the government guidance, do feel free to let them know they are allowing marches in favour of Hamas, perhaps they didn't know (or perhaps they disagree).
www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know

Hamas is Gaza they control everything and everybody in Gaza if they are not defeated they remain in control in Gaza so nothing changes.
They way the war had been reported has been very emotional to ban the marches would cause harm and have rightly been controlled. Those on Gransnet that support Hamas are presumably quite happy to see civilians used as human shields, why else would Hamas use a hospital as a base to fight Israel with command bunkers and tunnels to escape.

Katie59

foxie48

Katie59 "On the other side of the argument the demonstrations in favour of Hamas has gone on too long, but again if they were banned there would likely be violence so it’s safer to allow properly controlled demonstrations."

If the marches were pro Hamas they would be banned because it is a proscribed organisation. I know you like to say "Hamas is Gaza" but fortunately most (and that includes our present government) don't take such a simplistic view of a complicated situation. I'm attaching a link to the government guidance, do feel free to let them know they are allowing marches in favour of Hamas, perhaps they didn't know (or perhaps they disagree).
www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know

Hamas is Gaza they control everything and everybody in Gaza if they are not defeated they remain in control in Gaza so nothing changes.
They way the war had been reported has been very emotional to ban the marches would cause harm and have rightly been controlled. Those on Gransnet that support Hamas are presumably quite happy to see civilians used as human shields, why else would Hamas use a hospital as a base to fight Israel with command bunkers and tunnels to escape.

Does that involve Iran?

Yes, I agree Norah. A major player the USA has no appetite as far as I can see having just withdrawn from Afghanistan in a very controversial way. But I do believe part of the reason they have funded or sold Israel so many arms was to have a sort of base in the Middle East itself.

I hate the whole "Balance of arms keeps peace thing" but they seem to use it.

Wyllow3

Yes, I agree Norah. A major player the USA has no appetite as far as I can see having just withdrawn from Afghanistan in a very controversial way. But I do believe part of the reason they have funded or sold Israel so many arms was to have a sort of base in the Middle East itself.

I hate the whole "Balance of arms keeps peace thing" but they seem to use it.

It seems, perhaps the USA also attempt to stay neutral with Saudi Arabia, without combat capability there (in Saudi Arabia)?

Oil, Norah....

Wyllow3

Oil, Norah....

Indeed. I do believe oil is the main factor.

However as they have no combat capability in Saudi Arabia (since ? I forget), I wonder if they do want neutrality with them as well.

I've googled and there is so much but I don't feel I know enough. this article shows how complicated it is!

www.spectator.co.uk/article/can-joe-biden-really-strike-a-deal-between-israel-and-saudi-arabia/

Norah

Wyllow3

Oil, Norah....

Indeed. I do believe oil is the main factor.

However as they have no combat capability in Saudi Arabia (since ? I forget), I wonder if they do want neutrality with them as well.

It is of course oil, because Iran will close the gulf shipping lanes down, if war breaks out that will affect the whole global economy.
The US will do whatever it takes to prevent a war with Iran its a war that cannot be won, after Afghanistan they should know that.

Today’s Telegraph:

“In Rafah, people received flyers Monday morning in Arabic detailing which neighborhood blocks needed to leave and where humanitarian zones had expanded to. The flyers said that aid services would spread from Deir al Balah in the north to the center of Khan Younis city in the middle of the Gaza Strip.

Palestinians in Rafah said people gathered to discuss their options after receiving the flyers. Most said they did not want to move alone and preferred to travel in groups.

“So many people here are displaced and now they have to move again, but no one will stay here it’s not safe,” Nidal Alzaanin told The Associated Press.

People were being ordered to move to a nearby Israel-declared humanitarian zone called Muwasi.

Israel’s army said Monday on X it would act with “extreme force” against militants and urged the population to evacuate immediately for their safety.“

So sounds as if Israel is about to move into the Rafah district.

Indeed. Unlike Hamas, the Israelis give fair warning to the civilian population to minimise casualties.

Do you call 35,000 dead “minimising” casualties?

Urmstongran

Indeed. Unlike Hamas, the Israelis give fair warning to the civilian population to minimise casualties.

That’s not strictly true though is it. What about the strikes on the aid trucks?

Katie59

I’m not aware of anyone on here actively supporting Hammas. It’s too easy just to state Gaza is Hammas, and Hammas is Gaza, what about the children? What about history and why Hammas is in the position of power it now has? What about the Israeli govt (not the Israeli people, I don’t class them as in the same “group” or necessarily sharing the same views)

I’m not anti semantic

It’s hamas Cossy and you mean anti semitic.

maddyone

So sounds as if Israel is about to move into the Rafah district.

They want to get at the four remaining battalions of the murderous thugs otherwise known as hamas.Hope they get as many as possible.

I thought that they were going to give the civilians time to move? There are over a million - who are in absolute danger of death and severe harm.

So once the Israelis have successfully trashed the entirety of Gaza and continue as occupiers, are they willing to fund the re-building?