Another Tired Kicking For The Sick And Disabled By Rishi

Just like “stop the boats” and the suggestion that we leave the ECHR.

This ‘ain’t’ going to happen.

This is purely for the potential reform voters.

Things are getting desperate.

People should try self employment and see what it’s like when you’re ill! Most people I know in that situation just carry on regardless and work through the pain or stress.

Marydoll you’re right, work definitely give you a reason to get up in the morning.

I am sure that is true for many people who have a job to go to.
My relative has long term mental health illness which means she has never managed to hold down a job. After a crisis it took four years for her to get the proper help she needed for her MH. A further six years to begin to get almost into a position where with the right support she might manage some part time work. I cannot foresee what new support can be found given how stretched the NHS MH services are already. I agree it would be a good thing but if she first loses her benefits that will send her back into a state of extreme anxiety, unable to step outside the front door.
I fear a system which cannot do the job which is needed.

Siope

If Sunak wanted to reduce the benefits bill, he could do a number of things: massively increase the minimum wage (most benefit claimants are working); introduce rent controls (housing benefit is a huge cost); invest heavily in supporting local authorities to build social housing and remove the right to buy; allow simple and minimal value compulsory purchase of empty and underused property for social housing; invest substantially in reducing NHS waiting lists; strengthen and enforce the laws that stop employers discriminating against people with disabilities and mental health conditions; reform the benefit system so that it genuinely encourages a return to work for those who are able (see, for example, Income Support until c1988, when wages were increased to the amount ben fits would have been, plus an allowance for work-related costs including some childcare); there are so many positive actions he (or any government) could make, instead of just constantly reading from the populist script and looking for groups/institutions to scapegoat.

Could not agree more! Many people forget that at least 48% of people on YC are working as UC replaced both housing benefit and Working Tax Credits.

Sarnia

A lot of posters are generalising on here and saying that everyone with a sick note from the GP is genuinely unable to work and the Government should be lined up against a wall and shot for their latest attempt to put a stop to it. That isn't the case. Whilst many are genuine there are those who are jumping on the sick note bandwagon to avoid getting a job. They usually cite mental health issues which are not always visual and a quick Google will tell the dishonest ones what symptoms to mention. Gen Z's are very vocal in their reluctance to work. Clearly something has to be done. Rising benefits are unsustainable and the country needs those people who can to go to work and the genuine ones who cannot to be properly cared for.

Goodness me, accusing us of generalising then making your comment “Gen Z’s are very vocal in their reluctance to work”

So born late 1990’s to 2010?

I know many young people of these ages, including our three youngest children, 21, 23 & 26, all happily working, some saving for their own homes, some already on the property ladder!

Maddyone work was what kept me going, when I could easily have given in.

Chronic fatigue and pain was part of my daily life. Work and my love for my job gave me a purpose to get up in the morning.
I was devastated when I was deemed unfit to work. It took me a long time to come to terms with it.

JaneJudge

Cossy, imo there needs to be a separate benefit for those who will never be able to work. Apparently this used to be the case 'in the old days'

Absolutely agree with this.

The problem with a directive like this is that it will more likely hurt the genuinely sick and disabled rather than deter those that know how to navigate the system to their advantage.

The other issue is that when you look at the jobs market as it is today, it's obvious that a lot of it is low-paid, menial work (possibly also exhausting work) with unregulated hours which make it difficult for anyone with family commitments.

Germanshepherdsmum says that work is the best option if you are suffering from depression. For me this was also true - but that was because I had a good job which was relatively well-paid, and a sympathetic work environment, all of which was conducive to me making the effort. The fact that my manager "understood" made it all the easier to get out of bed in the morning, join my work colleagues, and be part of normal society. My GP - the same GP I'd had for many years, knew me - encouraged me to work but would've signed me off if he thought necessary. I'd already had a home-visit from a psychiatrist (unheard of now) who was 'encouraging' and, in short, I felt I had people on my side so didn't feel isolated or desperate, and it had a huge effect on my recovery.

Compare that with how things are now...

My last post was in response to GSM but my son and his wife called in and I got distracted for a while.

If Sunak wanted to reduce the benefits bill, he could do a number of things: massively increase the minimum wage (most benefit claimants are working); introduce rent controls (housing benefit is a huge cost); invest heavily in supporting local authorities to build social housing and remove the right to buy; allow simple and minimal value compulsory purchase of empty and underused property for social housing; invest substantially in reducing NHS waiting lists; strengthen and enforce the laws that stop employers discriminating against people with disabilities and mental health conditions; reform the benefit system so that it genuinely encourages a return to work for those who are able (see, for example, Income Support until c1988, when wages were increased to the amount ben fits would have been, plus an allowance for work-related costs including some childcare); there are so many positive actions he (or any government) could make, instead of just constantly reading from the populist script and looking for groups/institutions to scapegoat.

I have had very bad clinical depression too. I was signed off by my doctor for six weeks, after which I returned to work and continued to work for a further ten years until retirement. GSM is right, even if a person needs a short recovery time, it is best to return to work as soon as possible and to get back into a normal routine. That is best for your mental health.

A lot of posters are generalising on here and saying that everyone with a sick note from the GP is genuinely unable to work and the Government should be lined up against a wall and shot for their latest attempt to put a stop to it. That isn't the case. Whilst many are genuine there are those who are jumping on the sick note bandwagon to avoid getting a job. They usually cite mental health issues which are not always visual and a quick Google will tell the dishonest ones what symptoms to mention. Gen Z's are very vocal in their reluctance to work. Clearly something has to be done. Rising benefits are unsustainable and the country needs those people who can to go to work and the genuine ones who cannot to be properly cared for.

If the GP who is obviously medically trained isn’t going to do the assessment for a fit note will there be another level of bureaucracy put in place and what will that cost? I have GC looking for work and getting disillusioned when they hear nothing from prospective employers, where are all the jobs

maddyone

It’s obvious JaneJudge that your daughter shouldn’t have to produce a sick note every three months. Surely she should be on disability benefits. My DiL’s nephew has Downs Syndrome and doesn’t have to continually produce sick notes. He is disabled and his mother is his carer. He is nineteen.

DLA or PIP is a different benefit and disabled people not in work are entitled to claim both disability benefits and Universal Credit. Until the “assessment” is done by the (rubbish) third party company fit notes have to be produced. Even once the assessment is completed, it’s not “lifelong” even for lifelong conditions, so regular assessments are done. This is supposed to be changing so lifelong conditions only have to be assessed once.

Marydoll

*Flappergirl*, I felt the same as you, when I read the comment about not voting.
Women have fought so hard to get the vote.
If everyone did the same, what a even bigger mess we would be in.

I struggle to get to our polling station, with no parking nearby and at the top of a steep hill.
Consequently, I have arranged to vote permanently by post.

I think if someone really objects to all the candidates for whatever reason, they should spoil the ballot paper and send it back anyway.
At least a protest has been made.

Cabbie21

The government wants to reduce the cost of Welfare Benefits, so is now targeting the long-term sick and disabled as malingerers. True compassion.

People can be genuinely unable to work for many reasons. Long Covid and delays in getting NHS treatment are two of the major factors for the increase in claimants.

A GP’s sick note is just the starting point to claim benefits and is followed by assessments and frequent meetings with a work coach, with sanctions for those who do not attend( even if they are in hospital!) I have little faith that the proposed support for mental health will be forthcoming. Sanctions are easier and cheaper to implement.
If they cut out the GP’s opinion, as is proposed, we are reliant on poorly-trained, target-driven assessors, who do not know the claimant’s history. The system does not serve them well, given the huge number of appeals against bad decisions and long delays.
The NHS is on its knees, but let’s blame the patients, why not?

Absolutely!

JaneJudge

Cossy, imo there needs to be a separate benefit for those who will never be able to work. Apparently this used to be the case 'in the old days'

Yes, there does and whilst UC was meant to help those closest to to the labour market and more easily able to it utterly fails those who, through no fault of their own, will never work or be able to return to work.

Cossy, imo there needs to be a separate benefit for those who will never be able to work. Apparently this used to be the case 'in the old days'

GSM

I completely agree that for many, indeed most, people with depression that work is absolutely the best thing for them.

The biggest issue or flaw is within our current benefits system. The same Universal Credit system has to deal with people with mild disabilities, people with severe disabilities, people with learning difficulties, people with a broken leg, people with MS, etc etc all lumped together in one set of statistics. That needs to addressed before GPs are “ordered” not to issue fit notes!

Nanatoone

Cossy, what you describe is unheard of in this school. As to being unsympathetic and non empathetic I find that ridiculous. I am making the point that people who are not sick and are pretending to be ill are causing issues. Not those with genuine illnesses. Try not to read into my words that which I do not mean. I am a migraine sufferer and know what it’s like, I have never once pretended to have one but if some of them have them as often as claim, they really should see a doctor. I have preventers and medications to help when I have one, I have learnt to live with it. It’s hard to talk to people who have a set idea of how people are just because of how they themselves are. Please do not insult my dedicated and wonderful daughter, she’s a fantastic teacher and has to manage this situation daily. It’s not easy and the time wasters need to stop. Why would you not want the best for the the next generation?

I haven’t insulted you or your daughter, we clearly need to agree to disagree.

My grandfather, Aunt and cousin were all teachers, as is my daughter, where have I said I do not “want the best for the next generation” Do you, or have you, ever worked in a school? I was involved in schools locally as I was not only deputy chair of two governing bodies I was also chair of Finance and HR governing body at a large Primary School and was actually involved in meeting with both teaching assistants and teachers re sickness. I also worked within schools as part of my job at one point. I have a good clear understanding of schools and their processes and policies.

I would respectfully suggest that if you don’t work in your daughters school or any school you’ll not be too familiar or know all their policies or processes.

I feel sorry for anyone, including you and your daughter, who suffers from any any debilitating conditions such as migraines. I too have some long term conditions, I managed them as best as I could, but still had s fair amount of time off sick and had to take early retirement. We all manage our health differently, what one person can deal with, another cannot. Your posts do come across as completely lacking in empathy and I make no apology for this, you have no idea what is wrong with the staff at your daughter’s job, or whether “they are making up being sick”, and one can only assume you gain all your intel second hand from your daughter, who clearly appears to complain a lot about her colleagues!

maddyone

Interesting letter from the GP Urmstongran.

I believe that this new directive (or whatever it is) is not directed at those who are in employment, and are suffering sickness, but it is directed towards people who don’t work at all and claim benefits. I maybe wrong but that’s how I read it.
I do know that significant numbers of people who are in their 50/60s have not returned to work since the pandemic. I don’t know what their reasons are but I know that government is concerned about this. I also know that there are a significant number of younger people who have never had a job of any sort since the pandemic and live on benefits or are dependent on their parents. I suspect theses two groups are the ones government have in their sights. I have to say I have no idea what the answer to this is, but clearly we do need people to go to work and to pay taxes so that those in need can be paid the benefits they legitimately need.

I listened to Sunak’s speech yesterday and these groups are exactly what the government is targeting,

Btw I am not an ‘all right Jack’, Parsley. I have suffered from severe depression and anxiety for many years but I instinctively knew that it would be far better for me to work than to stay at home. It seems that people with those conditions are amongst those who could work but prefer to stay at home on sickness benefits. It can feel impossible to drag yourself out of bed and face the world but if you have a job to go to you have to do it and it is by far the best thing for your own wellbeing and self-respect.

JaneJudge you’re right, it’s a total waste of time for your daughter’s GP.

keepingquiet

So many people are flakes? How many exactly? Remarks like these are what cause people to blame those on the bottom for our social ills.

In our hardworking wider family of around 30 people only one I would consider a 'flake' as you put it. Yes, it makes me angry and I would rather the money went to genuine cases of need, but in any system there will be a few bad apples.

We can live in a society where people are supported by those who may need support themselves sometimes without other people blaming the poor instead of those in power like Sunak whose family are 'earning' more money every day than you can imagine.

It is time we got back to being a country where everyone was valued for the contribution they can make without whipping those at that bottom.

One day your daughter may be sick herself and need that support.

Agree with you entirely keepingquiet. If someone has been off sick for a year they will not be getting any sick pay from their employer. Also migraine is a very debilitating condition - I know from very painful experience. Thankfully now at 70 I don't suffer from them much, but in my 20's - 50's could be in bed for up to 4 days unable to function. Call me a 'flake' if you like - I'm still working in the public sector (in a stressful job, though teaching a class of young children I would find even more stressful). I have also recently been ill with Covid and was off for two weeks - my job needs me to be totally fit and mentally alert. I think Sunak is just looking for the right-wing vote as commented before. Sick (literally) of the scapegoating of the less fortunate, sick and disabled in this country.

and what a waste of time for her GP!