renationalising railways

Your link doesn't work, GSM.

They are even assembling some of the new trains in Newport.
tfw.wales/info-for/young-travellers/magnificent-train-journey/our-new-trains#:~:text=The%20brand%2Dnew%20Class%20197s,as%20Holyhead%2C%20Fishguard%20and%20Liverpool.

Here it is again.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13347539/Labours-plan-nationalising-railways-costs-billion.html#:~:text=Labour's%20plan%20to%20nationalise,Starmer%20was%20warned%20last%20night.

Kim19

In order of importance it would certainly be water for me. That affects all of us whereas trains have limited consumers. That certainly does not make them unimportant, just further down the pecking order.

I’m not denying the importance of clean water but to say that trains have limited consumers is a tad understated.

There were 1,570 million rail journeys in the year to 31 December 2023. (Source Office or Rail and Road). That’s an average of almost 2.5 journeys for every one of the population.

Some people travel to work every day by train. I did so for 44 years. I live 35 miles from Central London. My local station serves around 15,000 passengers a day. That’s 5.5. million a year. Many secondary school children use the train to get to local schools.

The cost of an annual season ticket from here including London Travel Zones 1-6 is now £6,300 - or £7,236 if you can only afford to pay monthly which is probably most people. An employee paying basic rate tax plus NIC needs to earn an extra £10,000 a year just to pay the cost of getting to work.

Higher wages equals higher employer costs - which are passed onto customers. Higher rail fares make everything more expensive for everyone and aren’t conducive to encouraging people into work.

We keep hearing about the people aged 50-66 who are now absent from the workplace. I know several people who have retired in their 50s and did so because the cost and stress of commuting to London each day took its toll. They all say that if fares were cheaper, trains less crowded and services more reliable they would have continued to work.

I doubt that nationalisation is likely to make the trains cheaper or less crowded. According to the link I posted, the reverse.

I agree TinSoldier, trains are an essential part of a joined up, greener transport system. The aim ultimately should for them to become the default transport into major cities. To achieve that the infrastructure has to be upgraded and the service reach extended. It’s just common sense, and it’s already happening in other countries.

The effect of Beeching’s axing of branch lines can never be reversed. So many of the old tracks have been sold off, built on and can never be reopened. An absolute disgrace, felt most by rural communities.

Nobody is suggesting the Beeching cuts are reversed are they Germanshepherdsmum, if they are I haven’t heard?
If you visit modern cities many have rail lines which run alongside major roads, and branch lines from suburbs are created to form metro systems. The idea is to move large numbers of people from suburban areas to where they work en masse.

You mentioned the service reach being extended Casdon. I remember how extensive the network was before the axe fell. Many who commute into cities don’t live in suburbia, but in the countryside as I did. One used to be able to get to the nearest market towns quickly and easily on the branch lines - that was what many, especially older people, needed to do. Not everyone wants to live and work in or near cities.

I must admit RENFE in Spain works admirably well. 90% of trains are on time, clean, efficient and the tickets are so cheap. I regularly went from Málaga airport six stops for €1.80 to my holiday apartment. Plus the trains were every 20 minutes! Fantastic if we could be like their system.

Wait for the Tories to start talking about curly sandwiches.
Although from what I have been reading the Labour plan is broadly based on a Conservative idea.

Quote from The Guardian:

"Ownership aside, Labour’s plans for a separate arm’s-length body to run the railway are very much on the track laid out by the Conservatives – underlined by the endorsement of Keith Williams, who drew up essentially the same scheme for Boris Johnson and Grant Shapps."

It's not exactly nationalisation if you look at it.

Just saying.

It’s about where the work is - the line is being extended to urban areas in Wales, the metro development is aimed at getting people from Valleys towns to Cardiff, Newport and Swansea, which is where a lot of the work in South Wales now is. It would be adapted for each area of the UK though, so built into the planning of new and extended suburbs of cities. It’s quite possible - it would be interesting to hear what’s happening in Scotland too. I live near a market town, they tend to be more self sufficient, and too far from cities so people don’t need or want to commute daily - it’s all about volume.

GrannyGravy13

It’s a no from me.

If anything is to be prioritised for nationalisation it should be water & sewage.

Yes, water and sewage first!

That is an absolute priority, we all need water to live.

GrannyGravy13

It’s a no from me.

If anything is to be prioritised for nationalisation it should be water & sewage.

This.

Renationalising the water companies is not achievable in five years though. That doesn’t mean steps won’t be taken for it to happen, and Thames Water will probably go back into public ownership in that timescale. I’m glad they are keeping their feet on the ground, because it would be foolish to promise what they patently wouldn’t be able to deliver in the timescale of one parliament.

A big no from me. Why should the majority pay for the relative few who have access to trains

Water and sewage would get a big yes

Urmstongran

I must admit RENFE in Spain works admirably well. 90% of trains are on time, clean, efficient and the tickets are so cheap. I regularly went from Málaga airport six stops for €1.80 to my holiday apartment. Plus the trains were every 20 minutes! Fantastic if we could be like their system.

I second RENFE I have used that line since I was seventeen (Oh my gosh, 50 years this year 😱)

yes that's true, water & sewage come first, but maybe they can be done together

You may not have noticed, Spabby, but the majority of water companies also deal with sewage disposal.

Even higher running costs and even more highly paid train drivers, then more strikes.

Got it in one. The leopards won’t change their spots.

I think that HS2 should be restarted. Capacity on the west coast mainline is just about exhausted and we really should be getting cars and freight lorries off the roads. 😇

Beeching was a disaster really. But didn't the Transport Minister have connections with the road construction industry... Motorways were the future...

Unfortunately, Beeching and Marples did indeed have connections with road construction …

The trains and fares in Europe are better I think. We are going from Brive to Marseille in May by train. I booked the seats about 6 weeks ago. The cost for 2 of us travelling 1st class was a little over 100 euros (for both of us) each way.

In order to get the cheap tickets you usually have to book around 90 days in advance.