Multiple stabbings in London

crazyH

All our brave police, men and women, should be armed.

Surprised to see armed response unit did not appear to be there

AGAA4

My DH used to say if the police started to carry guns routinely he would leave and many of his colleagues agreed. It would result in more violence.

I agree about this very strongly.

I wonder if this is yet another example of (no) care in the community.

eazybee

I thought how brave those policemen were. No apparent body armour, shields or head protection yet they went straight after him.

2 of the bravest were women police officers.

vegansrock

I wonder if this is yet another example of (no) care in the community.

No doubt on that one as a possibility:

Or taking crack cocaine or other illegal and dangerous drugs.

Wyllow3

AGAA4

My DH used to say if the police started to carry guns routinely he would leave and many of his colleagues agreed. It would result in more violence.

I agree about this very strongly.

My father said the same AGAA4, I remember him being sent to update firearm training towards the end of his career. He did it of course but remained steadfast in opposing routine arming if our police.

petra

ALL the cutbacks over many years are now coming to fruition.
First it was the closure of secure mental health units.
Where shall we house them, in the community.
Who’s going to medicate the seriously ill, the psychiatric nurses we put out of a job.
Now ^we find that we don’t want/ can’t afford/ can’t be arsed to employ those CPNs.
Thereby putting thousands of lives at risk from poor souls who should have been in a secure unit.

Well said Petra. I’m not suggesting we return to the huge institutions of the past but it’s crazy to think that society no longer needs some form of residential care for some individuals.
That’s probably irrelevant to this incident which has the hallmarks of a psychotic incident. That does link to your accurate comments about the deliberate destruction of mh services.

Those much maligned institutions provided a place of safety and help for many people. Those suffering psychotic episodes were safe and the public protected.
Of course things have moved on and in many ways needed to but there are very few places left to care for severely psychotic people. My daughter is a senior mental health practitioner and when called out in an emergency she can deal with the immediate issue. Then she spends hours trying to find a bed or ongoing support for the patient. So sad the NHS is failing vulnerable people.

Terrorism definition is listed as 'the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims'.
So if someone with metal illness starts killing people this is not terrorism because it's not politically motivated. It is more likely drugs are involved one way or another (either taking them or not taking them) and don't forget that huge quantities of ultra processed foods cause mental health problems too. And that's official.

I would suggest that we are seeing more and more young men going off their heads and turning murderous because they have spent years abusing themselves with drugs, alcohol and junk food. Add to that violent video games and movies and you have a perfect storm. An unhealthy life will produce an unhealthy mind. Just my theory.
Chestnut, I think there is a great deal of truth in what you write. And so often people involved in these episodes are receiving support and medication but deliberately refuse to take it.

It would seem ‘Care in the Community’ is a misnomer. ‘Care on the Cheap’ might be a better description.

Exactly urmston. No one would want to return to those awful institutions or to incarcerating vulnerable girls for life for getting pregnant. Those vulnerable people haven’t disappeared though

Is it known that this man had mental health issues, I can’t see that’s been reported anywhere?

I’m asking because on the thread last week about the 13 year old who stabbed teachers at school it was assumed, but in fact she was remanded to youth detention accommodation after her court appearance.

Think it was the families who placed the ' moral defectives' in institutions Iam64
Very different times then.

I wonder that the police didn’t taser him before he was able to get close to them?There will be questions asked I bet

Tazers are ony issued to specially trained officers. They re not just carried around as a matter of routine because they are only required on special occasions. We do not yet know whether the first officers who arrived at the scene were tazer authorised or even whether they were equipped with them. More likely they would need to wait until a trained and equipped officer arrived. Because of the danger to civillians they would try other methods to take him down. On the video the officer with the tazer looks to be female. Not that it matters.

No not on the news items I have seen Casdon.
The police were incredibly brave.
This may sound ridiculously naive but where would people get that kind of weapon.

They get these weapons on the internet.

I heard on Sky news tonight that eye witnesses said he was shouting at police officers asking if they believed in God?
It is likely a MH issue and it’s a tragedy all round - again!

Redbridge police are saying they found no trace of a prior incident involving him, so he isn't known to them.
SiL says the local Facebook pages are full of hostile comments directed at Sadiq Khan, and how, since 2016, London has become more lawless under his watch.

SiL says the local Facebook pages are full of hostile comments directed at Sadiq Khan, and how, since 2016, London has become more lawless under his watch. I don't think that can be disputed, but much as I detest Sadiq Khan and think he's a disaster for London, I'm not sure I'd lay the blame entirely at his feet. I don't think London has had a decent mayor since the role was created, but Londoners weren't given the option of just an Assembly, it was a mayor and Assembly or nothing. Hobson's choice really.

Rick Prior, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, said the attack was a "sad reminder" of the dangers officers faced to keep Londoners safe.

"It's often forgotten by people who attack our profession and the difficult and dynamic decisions which officers are confronted with on an hourly basis, that we work with heroes whose courage is incredible," he said.

👏🏻👏🏻

I’m not sure what people who blame the London mayor think he should have done to prevent this sort of random attack. I blame the cutting of mental health services.

vegansrock

I’m not sure what people who blame the London mayor think he should have done to prevent this sort of random attack. I blame the cutting of mental health services.

To a large extent yes vegansrock, but are you a Londoner?
Many of us do feel that Sadiq Khan has failed to keep us safe, and we have to put some of the blame on him because:

1. He is the Police and Crime Commissioner for London.
2. He oversees the Met's budget and decides how it is spent.
3. He opposes stop and search.
4. He sends out the wrong messages to those intent on doing harm.

For the safety of my DGC, or any child, I want anyone exhibiting suspicious behaviour to be searched by the police, though I realise that this opens up a can of ugly worms especially in the capital.

I'm sorry if I sounded a bit exasperated towards you vegansrock in my question, it was not meant to be personal. I'm not usually this upset in the middle of the night, and it would be inappropriate to comment on why at this particular time. Suffice to say, that when things happen literally on your doorstep, and you can picture the grief of those in the community known to you, it's hard.

joseann Yes I live in an inner London borough, thank you. There are incidents like this in many places , not just London, but some people seem to think Khan is to blame for crime anywhere in the country. Yes, Khan is in control of the police , but the police were brilliant in this attack, we don’t know this attackers background, but from social media he wasn’t known to the police previously. That will no doubt come to light later. I would like people to remember which party cut experienced police numbers and that Johnson , when mayor, promised not to close police stations or fire stations, but did precisely that. If it does emerge that this attacker had “ mental health issues”, I would not be surprised.

The government chose to close down mental health institutions and now we have people on the streets who should be confined. There is also a major problem with drugs and the effects it has on people's minds.

I'm currently reading a book on the Tories and the incompetence is appalling. They really do have a great deal to answer for, yet they refuse to admit their failures. Just like Tony Blair.

There is an election coming up and I'm at a loss who to vote for.