Is Islamophobia In Europe A Growing Concern?

Never seen Muslims dining out in our restaurants, ever

I don't understand this.

Is this in the UK?

Thanks zakiuma66, this is another blanket statement that seems offensive and divisive to me.

What are ‘our restaurants’? Our shopping centre and the big mall nearby has endless varieties of food outlets. It’s one of the joys of the way British food had improved and diversified. I do nt know where you live Freya, I’m north Manchester. I regularly see people of Muslim appearance eating in the places I go. Including the excellent fish n chip restaurant in our town

I’d never thought about restaurants and if women ( or men) in Muslim dress eat out a lot, but musing on this, no I haven’t seen any outside of Indian restaurants, I live in the South.
Not that it matters if they prefer to eat at home.It could be that certain foods are eaten with the fingers.

Iam64

Thanks zakiuma66, this is another blanket statement that seems offensive and divisive to me.

What are ‘our restaurants’? Our shopping centre and the big mall nearby has endless varieties of food outlets. It’s one of the joys of the way British food had improved and diversified. I do nt know where you live Freya, I’m north Manchester. I regularly see people of Muslim appearance eating in the places I go. Including the excellent fish n chip restaurant in our town

Anything is divisive if not going with your staus quo.

But what do you mean? I don't pay a massive amount of attention but if I go out , I see lots of different people including Muslims eating out, enjoying an icecream or a coffee.

Muslims will only eat meat that is killed and prepared according to their religion.

We have seen them in Indian, Bangladeshi and Turkish restaurants locally and in central London.

Not sure why they would eat in an establishment that didn’t conform to their halal beliefs, unless it was for fish or vegetarian dishes.

Freya5

Glorianny

There as a time when Catholicism was regarded much the same way some now regard Islam. It was an unfounded fear, so is this.

Wrong.

She's not wrong at all, Freya.

You perhaps have no idea about how utterly pervasive religion, and the differences between Catholics and Protestants, was from the 16th C until almost the present day.

I'd suggest that you study a bit of English history from the 1500s onward.

Well look at the struggles in Northern Ireland.

IMO religion - of all faiths - is one of the most divisive aspects of society. I am an Atheist and find it difficult to understand how religion, which purports to promote peace, harmony, love etc, appears to do just the opposite.

LizzieDrip

IMO religion - of all faiths - is one of the most divisive aspects of society. I am an Atheist and find it difficult to understand how religion, which purports to promote peace, harmony, love etc, appears to do just the opposite.

I have a faith/religion but I do agree with you that it can be and was frequently used by tyrants, rulers and dictators to manipulate the masses over the centuries.

Thank you GG. Can I ask, as a religious person when you see religion being used for ill, doesn’t that make you feel inclined to turn away from it?

LizzieDrip

Thank you GG. Can I ask, as a religious person when you see religion being used for ill, doesn’t that make you feel inclined to turn away from it?

Why would it make anyone lose their faith because others misuse religion?

That's a really good question Callistemon. I'm an atheist, so it doesn't affect me, but I can understand that a person has a personal relationship with God, which isn't affected by the religion's hierarchy.

Anybody who has ever studied even a tiny bit of British history knows that religion was "used" as an excuse to chop off quite a few heads.

It's relevant to this discussion because I believe there are many Muslims who believe in their God, but don't support the way Islam is interpreted in many countries. The horrors committed in the name of Islam shouldn't stop them worshipping. Incidentally, not all Muslims follow a halal diet.

I'm an atheist, at best religion is IMO a form of social control that helps people to live harmoniously together and at worst, it is a form of social control that can be used to subjugate and manipulate people. If people believe the Knights of St John or the Knights Templar were any less cruel than those who created the Ottoman Empire, they need to read up on their history. It's of interest though that under the Ottoman Empire Christians and Jews were protected in return for paying a tax. The crusaders were much less understanding of religious diversity! This "lumping together" of many diverse cultures under the description of "Islamic" is both lazy and ignorant, attributing stereotypical behaviours which actually have little to do with the teachings of the Quran is IMO deeply offensive. I may not follow a religion but I absolutely defend the right of others to do so without being labelled with derogatory and harmful tropes.

LizzieDrip

Thank you GG. Can I ask, as a religious person when you see religion being used for ill, doesn’t that make you feel inclined to turn away from it?

I see my faith as private, between me and my God.

I am not a regular at any place of worship.

Do the wars, conflicts etc., perpetrated in the name of religion make me question my faith? I think it would give me difficulty if any of the above were carried out under my faiths banner as such.

I do have empathy with my neighbours who are Muslims who do not recognise the Islam dictated and followed in the more fundamentalist countries.

Thinking about British 'culture', how far back should we go?
Three examples in my lifetime:

In 1967 the Sexual Offences Act was passed which decriminalised private homosexual acts between men aged over 21. Before that it was a punishable offence, including chemical castration as happened to Alan Turing to avoid imprisonment.

The common law offence of blasphemy was repealed in 2008; before this, in 1977, Denis Lemon was given a nine-month suspended sentence and a £500 fine for blasphemy.

Britain outlawed the practice of corporal punishment in 1987 for state schools and more recently, in 1998, for all private schools; before that it was legal to hit children in schools.

All three examples could be called part of British 'culture', but were outlawed. Should we bring them back?

My mother was brought up by Victorians and so much of the way they and she lived (e.g. not being seen out without a hat or head-covering; the rejection of women who became pregnant when not married; the snobbery of the class system) was the 'cultural norm' in those days. Should we bring these back?

I think it's very difficult to define or even describe accurately what a country's or a continent's culture is.
If I picked just the worse examples of, say, activities by extreme Muslims, perhaps I would see their culture as violent and extreme. If I picked just the worst examples of activities of British people (e.g. the Moors murderers, James Lee, Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe) perhaps I would see UK culture as violent and extreme.

Of course I know that neither of these examples are typical of either people of the Muslim faith or the UK population. Please look beyond the headlines.

Thank you GG. I asked my question because, as someone with no faith in a God, I am genuinely interested in those who have. I wasn’t trying to be deliberately provocative or disrespectful. Your answer helps me to understand those with faith a little more. Perhaps, if we all tried a bit harder to understand and respect those of different faiths, and none, society would be all the better for it.

LizzieDrip

IMO religion - of all faiths - is one of the most divisive aspects of society. I am an Atheist and find it difficult to understand how religion, which purports to promote peace, harmony, love etc, appears to do just the opposite.

I agree. So many wars in the name of religion.

choughdancer

Thinking about British 'culture', how far back should we go?
Three examples in my lifetime:

In 1967 the Sexual Offences Act was passed which decriminalised private homosexual acts between men aged over 21. Before that it was a punishable offence, including chemical castration as happened to Alan Turing to avoid imprisonment.

The common law offence of blasphemy was repealed in 2008; before this, in 1977, Denis Lemon was given a nine-month suspended sentence and a £500 fine for blasphemy.

Britain outlawed the practice of corporal punishment in 1987 for state schools and more recently, in 1998, for all private schools; before that it was legal to hit children in schools.

All three examples could be called part of British 'culture', but were outlawed. Should we bring them back?

My mother was brought up by Victorians and so much of the way they and she lived (e.g. not being seen out without a hat or head-covering; the rejection of women who became pregnant when not married; the snobbery of the class system) was the 'cultural norm' in those days. Should we bring these back?

I think it's very difficult to define or even describe accurately what a country's or a continent's culture is.
If I picked just the worse examples of, say, activities by extreme Muslims, perhaps I would see their culture as violent and extreme. If I picked just the worst examples of activities of British people (e.g. the Moors murderers, James Lee, Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe) perhaps I would see UK culture as violent and extreme.

Of course I know that neither of these examples are typical of either people of the Muslim faith or the UK population. Please look beyond the headlines.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Not even to mention workhouses and how we gained our Empire!

Freya5

Glorianny

There as a time when Catholicism was regarded much the same way some now regard Islam. It was an unfounded fear, so is this.

Wrong.

Wars have been fought between Catholics and Protestants and the war between Celtic and Rangers is ongoing.
500 yrs ago Catholics were seen as a threat, recently NI fought on religious divisions.

A generation later the divisions have largely been solved I havn’t heard of catholic bombings recently, terrorism in the UK has been caused by Muslim extremists.

Fear of Catholicism was not unfounded in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. There was a very real fear that England would be invaded by the Spanish and Guy Fawkes converted to Catholicism.

Divisions remain in Northern Ireland unfortunately.

The discrimination and fear of catholics was not confined to 500 years ago. They were not permitted to hold any public office until the Catholic Emancipation act of 1829.

That is correct. And Catholics are still excluded from the line of succession to the throne,

..

What always angers me is the many times that I have read senior members of the black and Muslim community claim that it is impossible for white people to suffer from racism?

I think each time of the people I've read about who've lost their careers because they challenged such statements (a la Laurence Fox on the now unwatchable 'Question Time').

We are the majority who are now being marginalised.

..

MaizieD

Freya5

Glorianny

There as a time when Catholicism was regarded much the same way some now regard Islam. It was an unfounded fear, so is this.

Wrong.

She's not wrong at all, Freya.

You perhaps have no idea about how utterly pervasive religion, and the differences between Catholics and Protestants, was from the 16th C until almost the present day.

I'd suggest that you study a bit of English history from the 1500s onward.

Don't see why you are so patronising. The statement was very ambiguous. "There as a time,"for starters, what does that mean. I have read, thank you, school marm, about the religious problems re Protestants and Catholics, remember Bloody Mary, the Oxford Martyrs.
Islam is another matter. We'll agree to very much disagree.