The 7th rebrand in 18 months - is this one any better?

GSM you’re asking that question to goad!

Are they Lizzie? Please explain as I have no idea where your statistics come from.

each child disadvantaged and humiliated by this policy is a tragedy

These are children born 3-0 up. They will never be disadvantaged!

If you are sending your child to private school at age 11, you know you before they start that you will have 5 years school fees to pay until the child is 16. If you don’t budget for all contingencies, including losing your job, and the long known fact that if the government changes you will be charged extra, and you will have to remove your child from the school because you can no longer pay for their education to GCSE level, then yes, you are feckless. That’s why there was a drop of 2.7% in enrolments to private schools this academic year, people know they aren’t going to be able to afford the fees.

Casdon, parents who have had a child at private school for some years, and have budgeted carefully and made sacrifices to afford the fees do not become ‘feckless’ because Labour decides to add 20% to their expenses. As has already been said, the children may find themselves coping with the requirements of a different examination board or they may have been studying for the IB.

Vegansrock, if VAT is levied on school fees it is immediately due from the parents to HMRC and has to be charged, whatever the school’s policy. I don’t think anyone has said that this will affect ‘thousands’ of children - but each child disadvantaged and humiliated by this policy is a tragedy.

We don’t know that many or any children will be “forced to leave” their private school, or if any, how many. Not every school will increase the fees by the full amount immediately, some of the wealthier ones will maybe stagger the increase and absorb the difference, increasing it for new parents to the school. I think it’s scaremongering to suggest that thousands of children will suddenly be left without schooling because of this measure.

Germanshepherdsmum

There will be rules attached to the use of school funds and it cannot simply be assumed that a parent unable to pay the VAT can have it paid from a hardship fund.

I argue in favour of choice and of not making a child suffer humiliation, and maybe have their education totally screwed up, through Labour’s ideology. I hope my numerous statements that I and my son both had state educations is evidence that I have no personal axe to grind. Many say they want fairness - this policy is distinctly unfair. It also contradicts Starmer’s statement some time ago that he would not increase taxation.

No it’s not unfair - what’s unfair is you ‘forgetting’ that if children are forced to leave private schools because their parents have been feckless enough not to budget adequately, the children will be cast to the lions educationally. They won’t, they will just go into the state education system that 90% of children already go through.

If you say they can afford more, then of course you might be right.

From a report by Shelter:

“ The latest government data shows there are 125,760 homeless children living in temporary accommodation with their families in England today – a 67% rise in 10 years. Shelter’s research found that more than a quarter of households (27%) were moved into temporary accommodation more than an hour away from where they used to live.

Families living in temporary accommodation are often required to move numerous times at short notice. Shelter’s report exposes the devastating impact this constant disruption is having on families lives, including on their children’s education and ability to work:

Over a fifth (22%) of homeless children have to move school multiple times as a result of living in temporary accommodation”

These are the children who are having their education ‘screwed up’. These families have no choice.

I repeat, people who can afford school fees, can afford an extra few thousand should they choose to. They have choices!

There will be rules attached to the use of school funds and it cannot simply be assumed that a parent unable to pay the VAT can have it paid from a hardship fund.

I argue in favour of choice and of not making a child suffer humiliation, and maybe have their education totally screwed up, through Labour’s ideology. I hope my numerous statements that I and my son both had state educations is evidence that I have no personal axe to grind. Many say they want fairness - this policy is distinctly unfair. It also contradicts Starmer’s statement some time ago that he would not increase taxation.

I'm sure the school would employ a competent lawyer to work round the problem for them 😂

Nobody has suggested that ‘the majority of parents are on struggle street’, but a great many who make sacrifices to try to get their children what they believe to be the best education are by no means well off.

Whether a school’s hardship fund can be used to pay VAT on fees is questionable.

The idea that the majority of parents are on struggle street is laughable

Precisely!

Any decent school won’t chuck pupils out , they have hardship funds. The current fees are £24k a year. No one who is on the breadline will be forking that out, some have two or more children at the school. The idea that the majority of parents are on struggle street is laughable. At my old school there were bursaries for the hard up, mostly taken by middle class parents working the system .

LizzieDrip

^and to hell with the children who have to switch schools at a crucial point, who may as a result be seriously disadvantaged^

Are you seriously saying that someone who can afford to pay over £16k a year for school fees won’t be able to afford a further £3k. Rubbish!

I think your assumption that an extra £3,000 a year is easily found rubbish to be perfectly honest.

You have no idea of what sacrifices some parent’s make to send their children to private school, they are not all Rothschilds

Really you are expecting us to feel sorry for people who you think won't be able to afford to buy advantage for their children. Well, I don't think you'll find many takers for that... The concept of buying privilege is somewhat abhorrent to a great many people

👏👏👏👏 MaizieD

and to hell with the children who have to switch schools at a crucial point, who may as a result be seriously disadvantaged

Are you seriously saying that someone who can afford to pay over £16k a year for school fees won’t be able to afford a further £3k. Rubbish!

I still support “choice”, if you choose and can afford private education, private tutors, private healthcare, that is your choice, just be prepared to pay the full wack! Absolutely no reason for independent schools to have “charitable” status any more, they are a business! Even state school academy trusts are now run like businesses

Hear, hear Cossy!

I know Labour are not proposing to abolish private education Maizie. Credit me with some intelligence. They just want to make it as difficult as they can for parents who are able to make the choice - and to hell with the children who have to switch schools at a crucial point, who may as a result be seriously disadvantaged.

westendgirl

What is wrong with sending your child to the state school? They will stand a better chance of getting in to Oxford / Cambridge, they will get a sound education and learn how to get on with a good variety of people. They should grow up without feeling entitled. Parents need to play their part.., however .
Just because a school is private it does not mean it is better than the state school down the road.

You know what? I think that quite often it is.

Much of the profit made by the independent sector is sent overseas. They are vastly wealthy and an eon away from what is traditionally seen as the charity sector.

I was a teacher and worked in state schools, comprehensive and grammar, also in the last 10 years of my career a very well endowed independent school. 2 of my own 4 children went to that independent school, one child to a state comp, one to a state grammar. The independent school offered way more in terms of extras- drama, music, sport, arts , school trips etc. I obviously benefitted from the privilege, but it galls me that the state doesn’t offer the same opportunities to the 90% of children who are educated by the state. The vast majority of the parents at the independent school were wealthy and a few £k on the fees wouldn’t be a burden. Some kids turned up in chauffeured cars and I remember one parent landing a helicopter on the school field to take his child off for a birthday treat. The school owned loads of properties and they said even if no one paid fees they’d still be worth a fortune. There were a few bursaries and scholarships, but no one could pretend they were a charity for the poor( which was the original purpose of the school some 500 years ago) btw , the child who did best in terms of academic success was the one who went to the state grammar.

Germanshepherdsmum

^they will just have to live with it ^ - simply because private education doesn’t fit Labour’s ideology.

What sort of argument is that? Brexit and the tories don't fit my ideology, but I have to live with it because that is, apparently, what the 'majority' in our democracy wanted.

Labour are not proposing to abolish private education, just to tax the businesses that run it. People will still be able to buy it if they can afford it. Isn't that what market capitalism all about?

I can't say I'm weeping buckets for people who want to buy their children privilege rather than have them earn it like the rest of the population has to.

they will just have to live with it - simply because private education doesn’t fit Labour’s ideology.

All the arguments on this thread (and the many other threads we've had on state v private schools) are completely pointless. We have every indication that the next government will be a Labour one and I don't think the votes of the relatively few people who might no longer be able to afford to pay for their children's schooling will do anything to change that.

I'm afraid they will just have to live with it, as many of us have had to live with a Brexit we didn't want and the last 14 years of incompetent tory government.

\Perhaps they might devote their energy to fighting for better funding for state schools....