ICJ seeks arrest warrant for Netanyahu and others for war crimes.

Wyllow3

Well I did check out his background

www.icc-cpi.int/about/otp/who-s-who/karim-khan

- please actually read - and he is well qualified for the job.

To say he sent because he is from a Muslim background is simply Islamophobic.

Islamophobic, a term used by others to prevent any valid criticism of Islam.A phobia is fear of, not a hatred of.
The Butcher of Iran calling for a fatwa against Salman Rusdie, kill him in other words, called the UK Islamophobic, and other countries, because we dared to call out this barbarism. According to him we should have gone along with it. See where the nuance is.
Perhaps the word should be anti Muslim.
So you cannot equate anti semetism with Islamophobia. It is not the same at all.

That’s what I posted Freya except you said it more succinctly!
👏

Freya5

Wyllow3

Well I did check out his background

www.icc-cpi.int/about/otp/who-s-who/karim-khan

- please actually read - and he is well qualified for the job.

To say he sent because he is from a Muslim background is simply Islamophobic.

Islamophobic, a term used by others to prevent any valid criticism of Islam.A phobia is fear of, not a hatred of.
The Butcher of Iran calling for a fatwa against Salman Rusdie, kill him in other words, called the UK Islamophobic, and other countries, because we dared to call out this barbarism. According to him we should have gone along with it. See where the nuance is.
Perhaps the word should be anti Muslim.
So you cannot equate anti semetism with Islamophobia. It is not the same at all.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word means "Intense dislike or fear of Islam, esp. as a political force; hostility or prejudice towards Muslims".

Has your opinion of the meaning usurped that of the OED?

Freya5

Wyllow3

Well I did check out his background

www.icc-cpi.int/about/otp/who-s-who/karim-khan

- please actually read - and he is well qualified for the job.

To say he sent because he is from a Muslim background is simply Islamophobic.

Islamophobic, a term used by others to prevent any valid criticism of Islam.A phobia is fear of, not a hatred of.
The Butcher of Iran calling for a fatwa against Salman Rusdie, kill him in other words, called the UK Islamophobic, and other countries, because we dared to call out this barbarism. According to him we should have gone along with it. See where the nuance is.
Perhaps the word should be anti Muslim.
So you cannot equate anti semetism with Islamophobia. It is not the same at all.

"The butcher of Iran" can say what he likes but we don't have to agree with him. Netanyahu is calling the request for his arrest anti semitic, he's another who can say what he wants but we don''t have to agree with him either. If the request is granted it will be on the basis of the evidence presented, not the faith of KK or because the ICC is anti semitic, then there will be a formal trial. I would like to see all five men in court but that is highly unlikely. fwiw three previous prime ministers of Israel have been wanted for terrorism including murder and were unable to travel abroad for fear of being arrested.

Actually I agree. It's not a straightforward term at all because of the use of the word phobia.

I can't imagine however how we could easily replace the term as it is now used and has been for some time by politicians of all parties, (with statements or working parties on):

The media and social media as making prejudicial or racist assumptions about Muslims or Islam or "Tarring all with the same brush".

(I was going to go on to say its a clumsy tool as Muslims of course have many different groupings and beliefs, but of course that is true of all religions).

Israel never recognised the ICC and I doubt that Hamas does.

Grantanow

Israel never recognised the ICC and I doubt that Hamas does.

Doesn't matter though, Palestine joined in 2015.

Grantanow

Israel never recognised the ICC and I doubt that Hamas does.

Israel consistently refuses to abide by UN rulings as well. Any other state that did this would be internationally condemned. But Israel isn't.
But as has been said it doesn't really matter. If the warrant were issued Netanyahu would be unable to travel to any country that recognises the ICC.

Wyllow3

Actually I agree. It's not a straightforward term at all because of the use of the word phobia.

I can't imagine however how we could easily replace the term as it is now used and has been for some time by politicians of all parties, (with statements or working parties on):

The media and social media as making prejudicial or racist assumptions about Muslims or Islam or "Tarring all with the same brush".

(I was going to go on to say its a clumsy tool as Muslims of course have many different groupings and beliefs, but of course that is true of all religions).

It's not uncommon for words to shift meaning slightly from any component parts. Another example is "homophobia", which isn't a fear of homosexuals.

Agree that our governments have not agreed to stop supplying armaments to Israel and have not even appeared to support Biden.

I really wish it were possible to discuss this without constantly debating if it is anti semitic to criticise the government of Israel. Even the few countries that are continuing to support Israel with arms are asking them to kill fewer civilians, let aid through and stick to the law. If anyone can name a country that is completely happy that Israel is staying within international law, could they please say which because I can't think of a single one. It's insulting to suggest that someone in K K's position and with his experience and qualifications is incapable of being impartial because he's a Muslim. Actually I do think it's Islamophobic and arguing about the definition of Islamophobia doesn't change that. If you don't know what Islamophobia is just look it up.

With respect you want to discuss it only with those who share your opinion

growstuff

Freya5

Wyllow3

Well I did check out his background

www.icc-cpi.int/about/otp/who-s-who/karim-khan

- please actually read - and he is well qualified for the job.

To say he sent because he is from a Muslim background is simply Islamophobic.

Islamophobic, a term used by others to prevent any valid criticism of Islam.A phobia is fear of, not a hatred of.
The Butcher of Iran calling for a fatwa against Salman Rusdie, kill him in other words, called the UK Islamophobic, and other countries, because we dared to call out this barbarism. According to him we should have gone along with it. See where the nuance is.
Perhaps the word should be anti Muslim.
So you cannot equate anti semetism with Islamophobia. It is not the same at all.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word means "Intense dislike or fear of Islam, esp. as a political force; hostility or prejudice towards Muslims".

Has your opinion of the meaning usurped that of the OED?

My opinion is my opinion. Like it or not.

Arrest the leaders of Hamas first.

maddyone

Arrest the leaders of Hamas first.

Absolutely.

Vintagewhine good name btw
If you were Jewish or Muslim you would understand much better that due to how Muslims have viewed and treated Jews there is so much hatred/dislike/tension.
Look at how the Muslim population here in the UK have come out in their thousands on the Saturday marches and they’re mainly from Pakistan and not Arab countries.

Freya5

maddyone

Arrest the leaders of Hamas first.

Absolutely.

But they are terrorists and are protected by human rights
legeslation. The UN and other aid organizations have been paying them to develop Gaza for 20 yrs they are the good guys.

Anniebach

With respect you want to discuss it only with those who share your opinion

No I'm sharing my opinion just like everyone else.

Palestine is being recognised as a state by Ireland Norway and Spain next week.
Israel has withdrawn its ambassadors in those countries.

Oreo

Vintagewhine good name btw
If you were Jewish or Muslim you would understand much better that due to how Muslims have viewed and treated Jews there is so much hatred/dislike/tension.
Look at how the Muslim population here in the UK have come out in their thousands on the Saturday marches and they’re mainly from Pakistan and not Arab countries.

Are you Jewish or Muslim? Why do you assume you know my faith and why do you think you " understand" more than I do? Many people who have attended these marches follow faiths other than Islam and probably many have no faith. It's been mentioned before but there are also Jews on the marches.

Oreo

Vintagewhine good name btw
If you were Jewish or Muslim you would understand much better that due to how Muslims have viewed and treated Jews there is so much hatred/dislike/tension.
Look at how the Muslim population here in the UK have come out in their thousands on the Saturday marches and they’re mainly from Pakistan and not Arab countries.

Just a reminder that, although Jews and Arabs have historically hated each other, it wasn't Muslims who were the reason Jews wanted their own country, safe from persecution.

Vintagewhine

Oreo

Vintagewhine good name btw
If you were Jewish or Muslim you would understand much better that due to how Muslims have viewed and treated Jews there is so much hatred/dislike/tension.
Look at how the Muslim population here in the UK have come out in their thousands on the Saturday marches and they’re mainly from Pakistan and not Arab countries.

Are you Jewish or Muslim? Why do you assume you know my faith and why do you think you " understand" more than I do? Many people who have attended these marches follow faiths other than Islam and probably many have no faith. It's been mentioned before but there are also Jews on the marches.

Yes to Jewish.
And you?

growstuff

Oreo

Vintagewhine good name btw
If you were Jewish or Muslim you would understand much better that due to how Muslims have viewed and treated Jews there is so much hatred/dislike/tension.
Look at how the Muslim population here in the UK have come out in their thousands on the Saturday marches and they’re mainly from Pakistan and not Arab countries.

Just a reminder that, although Jews and Arabs have historically hated each other, it wasn't Muslims who were the reason Jews wanted their own country, safe from persecution.

I don’t need a reminder thanks.

Jews and Muslims have not "historically hated each other". Jews lived peacefully in the Muslim territory know as Al Andaluz, which comprised Spain, Portugal, Gibraltar and the South of France.
Jews constituted more than five per cent of the population. Al-Andalus was a key centre of Jewish life during the early Middle Ages, produced important scholars and was one of the most stable and wealthy Jewish communities.
The real persecution, the forcible conversion, the burning and execution began when the Christians conquered the area. And many of the antisemitic views are linked to Christianity.

Muslims and Jews also lived together in Palestine until after WW2. It was the events of 1948 when Jewish terrorists the Irgun began driving out Muslims that caused the conflict.

I think tbh it began with the Balfour declaration. Western interference.

Prior to that people of all faiths lived cheek by jowl in peace and harmony.