Never mind about NS, what about tackling knife crime?

Applegran

I know what I am suggesting here is not a cure for knife crime, but it might make it harder to kill someone. I read this idea some time ago: we should make it illegal to sell kitchen knives (and other knives to which this could apply) with sharp pointed ends. You can chop vegetables or meat without needing a sharp point.

I think you will find that knives with points are essential for some things, filleting fish, deboning chicken and/or other meats etc.

Getting seeds out of chillis, eyes out of potatoes etc etc etc. All my kitchen knives have points and I use them.

There is no reason to stop the general public buying culinary knives because they might be misused by criminals.

Will the proposed national service produce fitter stronger thugs?

I read a lot of newspaper report both national and local and listed to TV coverage but am not good at recalling who said what or what the current law is, so my remarks may be fairly amateur compared to others on here. But my feeling is, and always has been in my 72 years, that far too many children are brought up in relative poverty by parents (often only one) who struggle themselves with financial issues as well as emotional and health issues. They often aren't well equipped to handle the strains of life (there is little training for parenthood) and despite doing their best (or thinking that they are) simply aren't' able to do what other parents can do.

My own GC have wonderful parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents who are "lucky" enough to have financially-comfortable lives, were well-educated and are more able to cope with some of the stresses of life (we have all experienced cancer and even the death of a daughter in her 30s). My GC enjoy school, attend lots of hobby groups (sport, dancing, swimming etc). They don't have the time or inclination to be involved in crime as no doubt some of their friends might be in a few years time.

I grew up in New Mills, Derbyshire, which at the time had the highest crime rate per head of population, in the country. I knew (went to school with too) some of the criminals. Many were related to each other. But in the main, they were all disadvantaged, with parents more keen on booze and illicit marital affairs, so no time for the kids. Most were, in fact, not inherently bad, just fuelled by drink and drugs. Due to the efforts of a few very keen, hardworking youth leaders, most of these boys and girls were encouraged to join in other activities (sport, art, music, acting) and most became good citizens in the community. Even the two boys who committed murder turned the corner in prison and are leading decent lives today. Many of them are turning up to join our local u3a

Governments could save billions in prison care if they made any attempt to deal with the reasons for people having such low esteem and life expectations rather than leaving them to run free in their communities and cause such harm to themselves and others.

Of course, not all can be "saved" but if enough are helped it could make it less acceptable to carry out crimes, and especially violent ones.

But maybe I am naive and this will never happen because those in government simply do not care. I wonder if any of the Tories even KNOW any disadvantaged families or people with a below-average IQ (which measure is nowadays scoffed at).

I just found this thread and need to read it all, but for now I’ll just say I’m seriously worried about the levels of knife crime in our country.
And neither politicians nor police seem to know what to do about it.

It is incredibly sad. A lot of the young people say they carry them in case they're attacked. It's the same argument as the US gun lobby. I don't know, physical violence used to be widespread when I was growing up - children & dogs were smacked (or belted), fighting in the playground, fighting on the streets. That seems to me to have decreased, certainly physically discipling children. And a good thing too. But young lads fighting didn't usually end up being fatal & now they are all "knifed up" , it does. It's many factors, isn't it? (yes childhood poverty is a big one) & the politicians know this & know they
can't just legislate & put an end to it.I agree more Youth services but maybe it's gone too for for that to make a difference now.

Your post was thought provoking and interesting Madmeg. Thank you for sharing that of which you know.

And as said'nobody really cares'. In so many areas

Applegran

I know what I am suggesting here is not a cure for knife crime, but it might make it harder to kill someone. I read this idea some time ago: we should make it illegal to sell kitchen knives (and other knives to which this could apply) with sharp pointed ends. You can chop vegetables or meat without needing a sharp point.

Applegran
Most serious knife injuries are caused by slashing
Without knowing anatomy chances are you wouldn’t kill someone. But slashing someone at the neck, the wrist ( major arteries) will more than likely kill.
You don’t need a pointed blade.

Milest0ne

Will the proposed national service produce fitter stronger thugs?

Are you saying our Servicemen and women are thugs, MilestOne?

What a despicable comment.


Just before the 80th Anniversary of D Day too.
Lest we forget.

J52

Well National Service will give some youth the ideal training for violent crime with knives, guns and commando style attacks.

And my post above applies to you too J52
Just despicable.

*Callistemon^
Treat those comments with the contempt they deserve 😡

They need to be called out, petra.

The level of ignorance about HM Forces posted on GN is incredible.

Mama Tuesday, my dh was also a serving PO until 2016 and after 30+ years service he retired due the fact it was no longer looked upon as a service , who’s officer swore an oath to serve and protect were being routed to what ever was the CC vanity project, too many officers promoted without any real experience. The reduction in entry standards attracted people ill equipped to do the job.

Urmstongran

Your post was thought provoking and interesting Madmeg. Thank you for sharing that of which you know.

Yes, it is really interesting.

As my husband commented, these knife-wielding vermin never pick on a fit, six foot man, always the soft target, women and boys, and so many of these criminals are not British.

J52

Well National Service will give some youth the ideal training for violent crime with knives, guns and commando style attacks.

My family have a strong service record, both Army and RAF. Non turned out to be knife welding thugs.
Despicable comment.

I think there has been some confusion here. I'm certain MilestOne and J52 were not implying that current or former members of the armed forces are dangerous thugs. As if anyone would say that!

I understand totally what they meant. That the 'knife wielding thugs' we have currently on our streets may become better equipped to carry out attacks after having some military training. Whether that is correct is open to debate, but it is a perfectly valid opinion.

I really think the level of aggression aimed at those two posters was unjustified and I would imagine they are both very upset and probably won't come back.

When I was at school in the 50s, co-ed boarding school - boys were permitted to have pen knives, or 'pocket' knives. Possibly girls might have also been allowed to have them but I don't remember any of us wanting one.

In all my years there, I don't remember one single stabbing incident. Many of us were from impoverished or single-parent backgrounds where it was thought that a boarding-school education would benefit the child, giving much needed stability etc and gained entrance through a government grant - which is how I got in.

So a mix of boarders from a variety of backgrounds - but no knife-crime. And - the boys did get into fights sometimes, but as far as I can remember, and I would've known through the school grapevine, they did not threaten each other with their knives. I know a pen or pocket knife isn't very big, but it's still a knife and can do a lot of damage.

The only time there was a problem was when on 'cinema night', the whole school watched a (boring) film called, The Mark of Zorro where some American swashbuckler carved a "Z" into various artefacts or surfaces with his sword after he'd finished swashbuckling. Unfortunately, some of the boys emulated him and there were a variety of "Z"s carved onto tables and walls over the following weekend. Not good, but no-one got stabbed.

I've no idea why they had these knives, it was just something that a lot of boys possessed back then - they had penknives and we had pencil boxes.

Chestnut

I think there has been some confusion here. I'm certain MilestOne and J52 were not implying that current or former members of the armed forces are dangerous thugs. As if anyone would say that!

I understand totally what they meant. That the 'knife wielding thugs' we have currently on our streets may become better equipped to carry out attacks after having some military training. Whether that is correct is open to debate, but it is a perfectly valid opinion.

I really think the level of aggression aimed at those two posters was unjustified and I would imagine they are both very upset and probably won't come back.

That is how I took it, too, because originally it seemed that only those hanging around, up to no good, and unemployed were to be targeted, to get them off the streets.

It was only later on that people realised it meant every young person, with virtually no exceptions.

The usual pile on, just ignore it. Nothing more irritating than self righteousness.

The only kind of military training these conscripts would have wuld be square bashing and physical fitness - and many of this age group are fitness enthusiasts already before they go in the army.

It might teach them some discipline and routine, which would help them leave a violent background behind them when they leave the army, but as we are told 'only' 30,000 will go into the army, out of upto 800,000 reaching 18 each year, the ones that get the 'call-up' are going to be very carefully selected. Norway runs a similar scheme and quite a number of those selected then choose to join the miitary as a profession. So the army recruits will be the creme de la creme of those even selecting the army as an option.

I took it the same way Chestnut too. Monica, one of my relatives is a medic in A&E and a lot of the knife crimes that end up in hospital are considered to be county lines (I can't remember whether you said it wasn't on this thread or not) but that's knife crime that end up with an emergency admission. I don't know much at all about domestic knife crime

JaneJudge I quite agree a lot of knifing is drug related and related to county lines but in the last few years what was mainly a drug related crime has spread to wider groups, including terror organisations of all kinds, those with mental health problems, even school children stabbing those who do not fit'. The number of such crimes has also rocketted up.

The stabbing on Bournemouth beach was not drug related. the older woman randomly stabbed at a bus stop was not dealing or consusming drugs. The three murders in Nottingham were not drug related.

What an A&E doctor sees will depend on where the hospital is and what its hinterland is. In big cities they would assume they see more drug related crime than a more rural areaa.