Labour to get back to an 18 week waiting list within the first term

Mollygo

MaizieD
When we were in France last year, the newspapers were full of the shortage of doctors and nursing staff, despite the funding you describe. It isn’t just happening here.

Which just backs up my point, really. The insurance element of the French funding model isn't making any difference to that particular problem.

However, the posters on here who live in France are giving a picture of an over all better service. If ours were funded to the same extent it would surely do better.

MaizieD
When we were in France last year, the newspapers were full of the shortage of doctors and nursing staff, despite the funding you describe. It isn’t just happening here.

Of course we could go down the continental route, and have health insurance, paid by all, where better off pay more, private working alongside state input.

That is what NIC was supposed to be for. Though of course it doesn't work that way.

However, I will repeat what I said, on another thread, about the French health service. Despite the fact that there is an insurance element to their system the French government still funds its health service by more money per head of population than does the UK government.
It makes little difference where the money comes from, their over all funding is more than the UK's.

Starmer today is pledging to cut net migration so where does that leave the staffing of the NHS? Perhaps he will have exemptions?

Greciangirl

So, what’s the alternative?
Another fourteen years of Tory austerity.

I’d rather take my chances with Labour any day.

Careful what you wish for. My brother had a 6 month wait for ankle surgery,not bad, considering the Tories have cut back. My Grandson also waiting for surgery, will be done in Sept, at his request. Of course we could go down the continental route, and have health insurance, paid by all, where better off pay more, private working alongside state input. Oh but isn't that what happens here??

Just like that! Brilliant. They’ve been keeping that little nugget quiet haven’t they? Fancy not sharing these plans earlier to help everybody 🤔

🤣🤣🤣

What are the Conservative commitments to the NHS in 5 years?

18 weeks in five years’ time. And how exactly?

18 weeks?! Good? But that is 4 months. Long time.

ha ha ha ha!

Good one. They haven't lost after 14 years of Opposition, have they!

Look what Starmer said about using Wales as a blueprint for how Labour will work, that’s worrying. It’s awful here. Wales has longer NHS waiting lists than England, schools are crying out for funding and Labour in Wales have spent £36m on trying to enforce a 20mph speed limit.

So, what’s the alternative?
Another fourteen years of Tory austerity.

I’d rather take my chances with Labour any day.

I agree Pantglas2. I rue the day I moved to Wales 4 years ago. Under a continuous Labour Gvt everything here, especially health care is a s**t show. If Labour can’t be bothered to improve healthcare in Wales why would a Labour Gvt in Parliament be any different?

Supergran1946

I have just one question - HOW ?????

Yes, my question too.

I have just one question - HOW ?????

MaizieD

Would you like to tell us all about this 'economic reality, cc?

That there simply isn't the money available to pump into the NHS to achieve Labour's (sadly) unrealistic targets. This is especially true if a potential Labour government really do intend not to increase taxation.
Even if such money as is available is poured into the NHS (which many like myself see as a bottomless pit) the likelihood is that NHS management will spend it on more management, more consultations on how to run the NHS and more IT management systems to tell them what is going wrong.
We all know that that the NHS simply wasn't set up to deal with so many different problems as it is facing today. It is spread too thinly.
You say that "health professionals have agreed it is doable" - of course everything is "doable", given enough available cash. But what expenditure can any government cut to give enough?
Pensions? I would hope not.
Disability payments? Possibly, but I know from family experience that these are already hard to get and not always generous.
Maternity pay? Again, I would hope not.
Child Benefit? Already this has been cut back for working parents on higher salaries and for larger families.
Payments to local authorities? I do hope not, thinking of the already high level of Council Tax and the demand for Housing Benefit and Care packages for those who need them.
Benefits and financial support for those on a low income? Pension Credits?
Each of these payment streams is vital for those receiving it.

I don't believe the 18 week waiting list is "doable" under current circumstances, though I do agree that for some people it should be seen as really necessary. Perhaps we will just have to accept that it might be possible to have shorter waiting lists for really essential procedures and that this will be at the cost of even longer waiting lists for many others requiring less essential treatment.
Perhaps we will have to accept that some treatment will not be done on the NHS at all.

cc

maddyone

I hope you haven’t got a pension pot. Labour raided the private pensions in the first budget of it’s last term. That was one way they funded public spending.

Indeed they did. When taxes on pensions were imposed by Gordon Brown they significantly reduced the final value of many of our pensions. For some the shortfall has had to be made up by Pension Credits.

Are you going to clarify 'economic reality' for us, cc?

maddyone

I hope you haven’t got a pension pot. Labour raided the private pensions in the first budget of it’s last term. That was one way they funded public spending.

Indeed they did. When taxes on pensions were imposed by Gordon Brown they significantly reduced the final value of many of our pensions. For some the shortfall has had to be made up by Pension Credits.

Oh my goodness, you could dead by then.
England, I hope you get a major boost in your national healthcare system by a new (Labour) term. As I understand it, it has been decimated 😵‍💫 by the Tories.

Not that America has perfect healthcare (faaar from it) but when we get sick we get help, for some instances, sooner rather than later. Our Medicare (for seniors) is superb.

It’s going to take a massive effort for NHS doctors to regroup in a wondrous and ethical way for it to happen as I’m sure many have taken financial advantage - they need to be weeded out. The morale of ancillary staff too… everyone has to get onboard. You almost have to start from square 1!

You have to be careful who gets voted in - here we have Trump and his conservatives who VOW to take away our Medicare and even cut out our Social Security. Really???

Germanshepherdsmum

In 2022/3 the government gave the NHS £181.7 billion wyllow. The NHS spent £171.8 billion of that on day to day items such as staff salaries and medicines. How much more do you think they should have?

The payments have diminished as compared with need/demand. It's not about how much cash put in, it's whether it rises in proportion to needs. And clearly, not enough

Course they will be able to do it there don’t be doctor/nurses strikes , all these strikes have a political aspect to them . Don’t get me wrong I hope it happens but I don’t like being held to ransom

If the junior doctors get 25-35% payrise, then immediately the nurses, teachers, fireservice, civil servants and Uncle Tom Cobley and all will demand the same. Where will the money come from?

Simply won't happen, sadly.

I’m not totally sure of the situation here, but do we spend as much as, more than, or less than, other countries with modern healthcare systems? How much do we spend per head of population in comparison to other countries?