Labour and the Tories have disenfranchised me

Germanshepherdsmum

‘It’s not moronic to want the best for oneself’ - unless you have some money, in which case it’s selfish.

I am happy with Conservative policies. I have no questions. But the silence here about how Labour will fund its manifesto pledges is deafening.

As is the silence about how any of the other parties will fund theirs? I’m not sure why you think Labour supporters should worry more than anybody else - we know what we’re getting into, and I’m certainly less worried about that than the alternatives.

‘It’s not moronic to want the best for oneself’ - unless you have some money, in which case it’s selfish.

I am happy with Conservative policies. I have no questions. But the silence here about how Labour will fund its manifesto pledges is deafening.

I haven’t seen a critique of any of the manifestos on Gransnet, but happy to join in if you want to start one - not that there will be agreement on perceived flaws, because as you know from other threads, a number of us are happy to pay more taxes in return for improved public services, and we also know that none of the parties have fully costed, or fully explained the omissions and fudged areas of their manifestos. It only surprises me that anybody would expect them to have done so.

Germanshepherdsmum

I have not seen a Labour supporter here or elsewhere questioning the manifesto. Are they afraid to highlight its flaws?

No.

PS. I missed your questioning of Conservative policies. Do you have a link?

If somebody has a very low income and lives in a run-down area, it's not at all moronic to vote for a party which will raise taxes. If taxes are progressive, the people at the bottom won't pay that much, but if systems are working properly they stand to gain more than they are contributing. It's not moronic to want the best for oneself. The way people vote is influenced by it all the time. What would be moronic would be to vote for a party which would almost guarantee to make you poorer and your area more deprived.

Are they afraid to highlight its flaws

GSM nope

I have not seen a Labour supporter here or elsewhere questioning the manifesto. Are they afraid to highlight its flaws?

I certainly won't be voting Labour but respect the opinions of those who will and the reasons they choose to do so.
I know quite a few labour voters and they are intelligent and well informed.
I choose to place my vote elsewhere and that is my right .

Germanshepherdsmum

My opinion, having seen many of them interviewed. Fortunately I don’t actually know any Labour supporters - they are rare as hens’ teeth in these parts. So my opinion is based on what I see on tv and what I read. Knock it if you like. Anyone incapable of questioning the claim that all Labour’s manifesto promises are fully funded needs to have a long, hard think. It’s no good saying ‘it will take a while’. How long, and how much will everyone end up paying in extra taxes?

Maybe, if you actually ventured to speak to a Labour supporter, you might find that not everybody who intends to vote Labour accepts the manifesto without question. For some, it's possibly the least bad option.

PS. Even morons are entitled to opinions and have a vote.

My opinion, having seen many of them interviewed. Fortunately I don’t actually know any Labour supporters - they are rare as hens’ teeth in these parts. So my opinion is based on what I see on tv and what I read. Knock it if you like. Anyone incapable of questioning the claim that all Labour’s manifesto promises are fully funded needs to have a long, hard think. It’s no good saying ‘it will take a while’. How long, and how much will everyone end up paying in extra taxes?

Growstuff & Casdon can I join the moron club too

But of course it appeals to their core supporters whose ability to think for themselves I seriously question

Offensive GSM!

Those who support Farage and Reform would believe every word he said. He could never form a government, nor an opposition, except in his deluded mind.

as I said, I want to see Farage in a proper scrutiny interview.

He was due to be the second biectvof onevof the Nick Robinson interviews, but cancelled at very short notice last week (in the middle of the furore about a Reform candidates views on Hitler). His excuse was first a diary clash, and later, that it wasn’t in diary at all.

Casdon

Germanshepherdsmum

Exactly. They have said very little and what they have said they intend to do to increase tax revenue will produce but a tiny drop in the ocean. That’s what I want to see them questioned about. Any fool can surely see that they haven’t a hope of doing much on the back of a predicted possible increase in tax revenue of £8.6bn by 27/28. I say ‘possible’ because neither they nor anyone else knows how much tax they can recover from non-doms, ‘loopholes’ and tax evasion - net of the cost of Lord knows how many extra trained HMRC officials. It’s a stab in the dark and the result of the stab is, at best, peanuts. But of course it appeals to their core supporters whose ability to think for themselves I seriously question.

You’re right of course, we’re all morons with no powers of critical analysis compared with your good self.

((Big hugs)) fellow moron.

A good many are, Casdon. I don’t count you among them. You only have to see some who are interviewed, apparently very few functioning brain cells.

Germanshepherdsmum

Exactly. They have said very little and what they have said they intend to do to increase tax revenue will produce but a tiny drop in the ocean. That’s what I want to see them questioned about. Any fool can surely see that they haven’t a hope of doing much on the back of a predicted possible increase in tax revenue of £8.6bn by 27/28. I say ‘possible’ because neither they nor anyone else knows how much tax they can recover from non-doms, ‘loopholes’ and tax evasion - net of the cost of Lord knows how many extra trained HMRC officials. It’s a stab in the dark and the result of the stab is, at best, peanuts. But of course it appeals to their core supporters whose ability to think for themselves I seriously question.

You’re right of course, we’re all morons with no powers of critical analysis compared with your good self.

Well said Primrose. I would add ‘be careful with you wish for’.

Luckygirl3

I have no expectations of short term change from a Labour or any other government that might follow the Tories. Things cannot be turned around quickly. What I want is some integrity and a recognition that there is more than one group of people in our society and we need to start prioritising those who are disadvantaged. The Tory principle of everyone for themselves and "no such thing as society" has caused untold damage.

Starmer is playing the long game - priority at the moment is to win the election.

A whole generation of children have grown up under this morally bankrupt code.

I have never voted Labour in my life but will this time as they are the only party with a chance of making a start on sorting out this sad mess.

dream on!

Exactly. They have said very little and what they have said they intend to do to increase tax revenue will produce but a tiny drop in the ocean. That’s what I want to see them questioned about. Any fool can surely see that they haven’t a hope of doing much on the back of a predicted possible increase in tax revenue of £8.6bn by 27/28. I say ‘possible’ because neither they nor anyone else knows how much tax they can recover from non-doms, ‘loopholes’ and tax evasion - net of the cost of Lord knows how many extra trained HMRC officials. It’s a stab in the dark and the result of the stab is, at best, peanuts. But of course it appeals to their core supporters whose ability to think for themselves I seriously question.

Luckygirl3

I am suitably inspired, but primarily concerned that the current Tory government will be gone. No amount of being inspired by the Greens will achieve that. I live in the neighbouring constituency to N. Herefordshire, where indeed the farmers would vote for a Tory monkey. Where we can get them out, we must.

Yes I agree Luckygirl but where there is any real possibility of getting a Green MP voted in I think we should do it.. I live in Pavilion in Brighton.. where we probably will get a replacement for Caroline Lucas.. and most other parts of Brighton will probably be Labour.. PR is the way forward but a long way off sadly..

I have no expectations of short term change from a Labour or any other government that might follow the Tories. Things cannot be turned around quickly. What I want is some integrity and a recognition that there is more than one group of people in our society and we need to start prioritising those who are disadvantaged. The Tory principle of everyone for themselves and "no such thing as society" has caused untold damage.

Starmer is playing the long game - priority at the moment is to win the election.

A whole generation of children have grown up under this morally bankrupt code.

I have never voted Labour in my life but will this time as they are the only party with a chance of making a start on sorting out this sad mess.

I am far more concerned about what isn’t in Labours manifesto regarding taxes, particularly capital gains tax on your primary home, pensions and IHT, than what is in it.

No Government to my knowledge has ever achieved what was laid out in its manifesto…

He is being interviewed by Nick Robinson this very evening.
www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2024/bbc-confirms-party-leader-interviews-with-nick-robinson
Spot the missing interview.
There are more scheduled before the election - as I said, I want to see Farage in a proper scrutiny interview.

Starmer has not been grilled about his manifesto Casdon. It was only published yesterday.

Reform’s apology for a manifesto would have been better written by a schoolboy.