Reform/Farage - economic policies don’t add up.

I’m more concerned about what any of the parties don’t say than what they do say.

I’d guess his party will cut back on welfare etc, send migrants packing, bring in private health care in a big way, support private schools probably at the expense of the state schools, build more jails, privatise anything that moves etc. etc. You wouldn’t want to be struggling to pay bills under his regime.

nanna8 I thought Farage had been quite clever with his proposals. No tax paid on first £20k of income, scrap student loan interest, inheritance tax kicking in on estates over £2 million, abolish IR35 etc.
At the moment, taxpayers are being hammered so Reform is offering an alternative option although nothing much said about the National Debt. Scrap net zero! Stop using consultants in the Civil Service. Basically cut costs. Offer 20 percent tax relief on private health insurance. Stop the Bank of England paying interest on QE to banks - didn’t know they did.
I wonder how many people have read the ‘contract’?

I thought Farage had been quite clever with his proposals. No tax paid on first £20k of income, scrap student loan interest, inheritance tax kicking in on estates over £2 million, abolish IR35 etc.

Attractive proposals, no doubt, and they do have a bit of logic to them in that they give money to the people who are most likely to spend it into the domestic economy and contribute to some growth. But what is proposed for the 'top end' of earners? And how does this help people who currently don't have any taxable income? What does the 'contract' say about state benefits? Any increase for them.

But, here comes the nonsense:

Scrap net zero! Stop using consultants in the Civil Service. Basically cut costs. Offer 20 percent tax relief on private health insurance.

This is just dog whistle populist stuff with no real basis in reality. It especially speaks to a popular perception that the public sector is riddled with 'waste', when, in fact, essential public services are struggling to the point of collapse because of 14 years of cuts to spending billed as 'efficiency savings'. If you want an even more ineffective public sector just go ahead and vote Reform !

Stop the Bank of England paying interest on QE to banks

The only sensible proposition. The money the BoE is paying interest on is money which, in the first place, it created itself to ensure that the banks didn't fail in the GFC. Subsequent sums are also money created by the BoE and put into bank reserves. They then promptly start paying interest on that money by treating it as 'deposit accounts' that the commercial banks hold with them... It's truly bonkers. Other countries don't do this...

(If you didn't know about it it's because you don't read my posts about the economy. I have mentioned it on more than one occasion 😆)

Labours figures don’t add up either ( according to the conservatives PPB last night )
He’s after you if you have any form of wealth. Which is typically Labour I suppose. But now I’m nearing pension age I’m really worried Labour will increase the pension age to 70, & tax pensioners to within an inch of their lives. Tax everybody else too I know.
I’m not looking forward to a labour government at all.
Selfish maybe, but I just don’t think they’re the party for anyone slightly better off.

Dinahmo

According to Reform the PA will be increased to £20k and the higher rate tax will start at £70k.

this means:

no tax savings for people on benefits
a tax saving of up to £1486 to those earning £20k or less

for those earning £90k there will be a tax saving of £9432. At the moment they would pay tax of £23432

Other tax cutting:

20% tax relief on private health pensions

reducing stamp duty to 0% on houses costing under £750k and to 2% for those costing between £750k and £1.5 million. A reduction to 4% for houses costing over£1.5 million

Farage appeals to the poorer in our society who, when asked, come up with the usual cliches. And yet, all the above will benefit the more comfortably off and the wealthier.

He wants to halve the Civil Service. Anyone would think that the CS only operates out of Whitehall and does the govt's requests. However, the 5 largest departments are the MOD, MOJ, HMRC, DWP and Home Office. So where is he going to make cuts?

We know that people already have problems accessing benefits and tax payers have been hanging to phone lines to HMRC for many minutes, often over an hour. I myself have given up sometimes whilst using the agents' help lines which are supposed to make things easier and quicker.

Gosh you've spent a lot of time on Reforms contract, have you dissected all the other manifestos, I'm waiting to read your dissection of the other parties dreams, especially the blasphemy law that Labour will bring in, to prevent free speech, and pander to the Muslim voters. That is an affront to the freedom of speech. Seeing as you will not vote Reform, why are you bothering, oh yes to dissuade people from voting for them.
Why bother on grans net, most are socialists, and won't vote Reform anyway.

Dinahmo is an accountant Freya, so she is naturally interested in what Farage’s promises actually mean in financial terms. What you said was unnecessarily rude.

maddy, I too am concerned about what the parties don’t say - and I am deeply suspicious when Labour says it ‘isn’t planning’ to do fiddle with particular taxes. We all know they will say ‘well we weren’t planning to do this, but …’.

I'm waiting to read your dissection of the other parties dreams, especially the blasphemy law that Labour will bring in, to prevent free speech, and pander to the Muslim voters

Would you care to point to the part of the Labour manifesto that says it will bring in this law? I can't find it.

Here's a link to the manifesto, just to save you having to search for it:

labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Labour-Party-manifesto-2024.pdf

P.S * Freya*. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread about Labour's manifesto, rather than derail this one, which is about Reform.

Thank you Dinahmo , that's interesting and useful. I love GN when I learn something- particularly when it's important to understand, but I've no chance of working it out for myself ( eg QE).

I’ve been looking at Labour’s manifesto, and am surprised that I actually think it is more radical than I thought it would be.

One if the areas is the notion of a national wealth fund, which will set up to fund government led investment in various infrastructure led projects, such as new technologies e.g. hydrogen, new ports, large infrastructure projects etc. So this state led approach in investment is further than the Blair government went. The idea is that private investment will be attracted inwards as these projects get off the ground.
The U.K. has, over the past few years really struggled to attract private investment, particularly since Brexit.

The other entirely new state led project is the Great British Energy investment vehicle to be set up by the government in order to invest in renewable energy. Once again this will attract private investment, but setting up of GBE recognises the governments major roll in this transition to green energy.

Both these areas will feed directly into the idea of state-led growth, higher productivity, wages and skills alongside state led planning initiative. None of which is being supplied by the private sector.

All parties intend to increase the tax burden simply because none of them have any intention of raising the current threshold for paying tax for at least another three years.

The idea is that private investment will be attracted inwards as these projects get off the ground.

Nice idea, any evidence that the private sector would do this?

The same applies to the last two paragraphs of Labour aims that whitewave mentions. Aspirations with absolutely no suggestions how this will be done.

Anyone, any party, can up with lists of aspirations, if they do not have to actually think about how their aspirations can be achieved.

I wonder where the private investment will come from. Labour have said that they will end the practice of fund managers’ income being treated as capital gains, as is the case in Europe and the US - so they’ll be keen to get on board won’t they, if they are still in the UK.

*The idea is that private investment will be attracted inwards as these projects get off the ground.*

Nice idea, any evidence that the private sector would do this?

Have you read anything by Marianna Mazzucato, MOnica? She has written widely on how state investment in projects which the private sector (which is notoriously cautious about innovation) won't fund, draws in the private sector once it can see a project has potential for exploitation.

I suspect that she has influenced Labour thinking. The 'missions' thing is one of her themes, too.

This is a rather elderly article about her from the New York Times: www.nytimes.com/2019/11/26/business/mariana-mazzucato.html

MaizieD

P.S * Freya*. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread about Labour's manifesto, rather than derail this one, which is about Reform.

No thanks, not one iota interested in what Labour "promise".
Just my views on someone reviewing the Reform contract, and just asking if other candidates manifesto wil be reviewed with such vigour. OK.

Germanshepherdsmum

Dinahmo is an accountant Freya, so she is naturally interested in what Farage’s promises actually mean in financial terms. What you said was unnecessarily rude.

maddy, I too am concerned about what the parties don’t say - and I am deeply suspicious when Labour says it ‘isn’t planning’ to do fiddle with particular taxes. We all know they will say ‘well we weren’t planning to do this, but …’.

Yes on reading again comes across as sharp, apologies to Dinahmo.
.

👍🏻

Freya5

MaizieD

P.S * Freya*. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread about Labour's manifesto, rather than derail this one, which is about Reform.

No thanks, not one iota interested in what Labour "promise".
Just my views on someone reviewing the Reform contract, and just asking if other candidates manifesto wil be reviewed with such vigour. OK.

No, Freya, you claimed that something was in the Labour manifesto (aka by you as 'other parties' dreams). How about providing some evidence validating your claim. You could do it on the new thread about the Labour manifesto.

It would be a shame if you won't give us the evidence because making claims without any evidence to support them is one way that lies spread and I'm sure you wouldn't want to be spreading lies.

zakouma66

Return migrants on boats to France? (no, "how")

Perhaps poke them into the sea to die, like Greece?

Perhaps take a leaf out of Denmarks book.

MaizieD being trumpetted as an advisor to jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon is hardly a vote of confdence. Her work is also theoretical she cannot point to any places where her economic beliefs are in practice.

New economic theories are usually based on re-interpreting and analysing what has underlaid economies in the past and showing how these can be changed. This aspect is missing from her thesis.

Private investment will come, if the plans are credible and the interest rate is realistic, it’s then up to the government to manage the projects properly. It’s easy to borrow money, managing projects a paying back the loans is a different ball game.

Maybe use QE to build a growth fund.

I think that Carlos Boix has actually been quite influential - that is what I have read.

From his site

“I teach and do research on political economy and comparative politics, particular on empirical democratic theory, the choice of institutions and their consequences for growth and inequality”

There is a list of his books if anyone is interested.

I chose to write about Reform's contract because it had been released that day. the manifestos if both Labour and Conservative had already been thoroughly analysed by a variety of pundits.

Labour are good at borrowing David. I shall be very interested to see where the investment comes from - if it does …

M0nica

MaizieD being trumpetted as an advisor to jeremy Corbyn and Nicola Sturgeon is hardly a vote of confdence. Her work is also theoretical she cannot point to any places where her economic beliefs are in practice.

New economic theories are usually based on re-interpreting and analysing what has underlaid economies in the past and showing how these can be changed. This aspect is missing from her thesis.

I said it was an elderly article. Corbyn ans Sturgeon are not the only people she has talked to...

She's written two books, research based of course, on the subject. The first, which I have read, 'The Entrepreneurial State'examines US state investment in various programmes since WW2. I suggest you read some of her actual work before dismissing it.

Besides, I find it very strange that you should dismiss her work as 'theory' when most economic ideas are based on theory rather than empirical evidence.