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Reform/Farage - economic policies don’t add up.

(297 Posts)
Wyllow3 Tue 18-Jun-24 13:50:18

The Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has published its assessment of Reform UK's tax and spending plans and it says they “don't add up”. And they are not just relatively unrealistic, it says. It says the costings are out “by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year

details:

Reform UK proposes tax cuts that it estimates would cost nearly £90bn per year, and spending increases of £50bn per year.

It claims that it would pay for these through £150bn per year of reductions in other spending, covering public services, debt interest and working-age benefits.

This would represent a big cut to the size of the state. Regardless of the pros and cons of shrinking the state, or of any of their specific measures, the package as a whole is problematic.

Spending reductions would save less than stated,

and the tax cuts would cost more than stated, by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year.

Meanwhile the spending increases would cost more than stated if they are to achieve their objectives …

Even with the extremely optimistic assumptions about how much economic growth would increase, the sums in this manifesto do not add up. Whilst Reform’s manifesto gives a clear sense of priority, a government could only implement parts of this package, or would need to find other ways to help pay for it, which would mean losers not specified.

Wyllow3 Thu 20-Jun-24 20:48:30

Reform does have racist elements in it.

A reform candidate accused of Islamphobia has re-appeared under a changed name

As candidate in Glasgow

Details in sky news 2 days ago of what she's said

news.sky.com/story/candidate-accused-of-islamophobia-in-2019-stands-for-reform-uk-under-different-name-13154545

As of Tuesday morning, Reform and their candidate have not responded to questions put to them about Ms Cocozza's candidacy and social media history.

Earlier today, Reform said it has consulted lawyers, claiming the company hired to vet its candidates failed to carry out adequate checks.

ronib Thu 20-Jun-24 20:40:10

Monica interesting concept. However what is the point of Reform if no one votes for them? Reform has a strong attraction for some and has positioned itself to appeal to a broad group of interest groups. Unlike Labour who revisit class warfare and unlike the Conservatives who seem to have given up.
Ben Habib is a member of Reform and he actually makes sense some of the time! I do think we have reached a new low in British politics though and I shall be glad when the election is over.

M0nica Thu 20-Jun-24 19:32:26

ronib Because the 'Reform Party is a limited company, it means it has no memebers, only supporters. Those who own and run the party are free to make decisions about policies, leadership and behaviour with out worrying about other people. This link is worth reading
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/reform-uk-nigel-farage-election-b2556355.html

foxie48 Thu 20-Jun-24 17:17:44

Ronib no problem with debating anything in a rational way but I find the pledges they have made are little more than unfunded vote catchers . Take the 20% tax relief on private healthcare, revenue is currently £6.2 billion, no tax for frontline NHS staff for three years. NHS currently spends 71.1 billion on staff. I don't know what % is front line but how would they make up the budget deficit? This is La La land politics. They also want to lift the threshold for income tax by over £7K, this would cost an eye watering amount of money. I could go on but won't. On their website they say Labour will bankrupt the country but I think should Reform be in a position to put their pledges into action, it's Reform who would bankrupt us. I couldn't miss the big DONATE button, on the website, is he taking a leaf out of Trump's book?

NoraBone Thu 20-Jun-24 16:46:58

Agree with many comments above (not the obvious one). The likes of the convicted criminal Tommy Robinson, and that foul Laurence Fox, standing shoulder to shoulder with Reform UK - that is enough to persuade me this is not a Party (Company) I want to be associated with, is not a party that will get my vote.

Casdon Thu 20-Jun-24 16:45:35

ronib

Casdon

Reform are not a political party ronib, they are a limited company.

Casdon so what if they are a limited company? Obviously a money spinner for Farage and Tice? The points that Reform put forward should be examined and debated in as rational a way as possible.

But if they have self defined as not a political party, what right do they have to obtain information from government departments who have an obligation to provide information to political parties? They can’t have the penny and the bun.

ronib Thu 20-Jun-24 16:41:38

Casdon

Reform are not a political party ronib, they are a limited company.

Casdon so what if they are a limited company? Obviously a money spinner for Farage and Tice? The points that Reform put forward should be examined and debated in as rational a way as possible.

Cossy Thu 20-Jun-24 16:31:16

ronib

MaizieD so much misinformation around. At the moment I am sideswiped to discover that a very good friend has been assessed as ineligible for any financial assistance towards her care! Apparently her pension is too high even though savings have plummeted well below the figures given on various websites. I didn’t know that the county council could decide that £232 a week is a sufficient amount to cover living expenses once £500 approximately a week is deducted for care. How stupid am I? Sorry for the rant…..

Sorry if you’ve answered this, is this care in the home (her own home) or residential care?

I ask because when my schizophrenic mother had direct payments from our LA for her care, she lived on Pension Credits yet was only granted 12 hours a week funded payments and was meant to find the rest from her fairly meagre savings

growstuff Thu 20-Jun-24 16:30:37

ronib

MaizieD this is a legitimate question for Reform Party candidates. Also all candidates should be given the same opportunity to discuss….
My husband is a contractor in government and agrees that there’s waste in public spending …..

So what public spending does Reform think is wasted?

growstuff Thu 20-Jun-24 16:28:48

JudyBloom

Nigel Farage and Reform are NOT Racists and it is very offensive to equate him with hitler. There is nothing wrong with being patriotic. Everything Reform say is true and they are the only party that will get us back on track.This country has gone to pot and will go even further down with the socialists. Reform all the way! We need a party to oppose the socialilsts and Reform is the only one to do that, so over the next five years they can achieve something good for our country and put people first. The government as it stands is corrupt, people need to wake up! That's my view and I am not arguing with anyone.

I'm not going to argue with you, but I'd like to know what good you think Reform will do for the country and how they will put all people first.

Cossy Thu 20-Jun-24 16:27:30

biglouis

Farage is not nearly right wing enough for me but its a start!

Goodness, do you belong to the BNP then? Farage is too right wing for a lot of Tories!

Cossy Thu 20-Jun-24 16:24:46

foxie48

Reform/Farage knows how to tap into the worst of people rather than the best. They wrap racism in a tissue of reasonableness. I listened to Farage talking, doing his very creditable impression of the ordinary man in the pub giving every closet racist permission to crawl out and spill their foulness. "It's OK mate, that's what most people think, it's just the woke lot/lefties who don't think like this" I loathe Farage and his ilk , nasty people with nasty ideas but sadly he's a good communicator provided you don't think too much about what he's actually saying. I really hope he doesn't get elected in Clacton and leaves British politics alone.

👏👏👏👏👏

JudyBloom Thu 20-Jun-24 16:22:26

Nigel Farage and Reform are NOT Racists and it is very offensive to equate him with hitler. There is nothing wrong with being patriotic. Everything Reform say is true and they are the only party that will get us back on track.This country has gone to pot and will go even further down with the socialists. Reform all the way! We need a party to oppose the socialilsts and Reform is the only one to do that, so over the next five years they can achieve something good for our country and put people first. The government as it stands is corrupt, people need to wake up! That's my view and I am not arguing with anyone.

Casdon Thu 20-Jun-24 16:22:15

Reform are not a political party ronib, they are a limited company.

ronib Thu 20-Jun-24 16:20:42

MaizieD this is a legitimate question for Reform Party candidates. Also all candidates should be given the same opportunity to discuss….
My husband is a contractor in government and agrees that there’s waste in public spending …..

MaizieD Thu 20-Jun-24 16:08:42

Chocolatelovinggran

So, if Reform have no access to data, how can it form part of their manifesto?
If there are no numbers or costings, then I cannot see how any candidate could answer this.

Its gut feeling stuff, isn't it.

ronib still hasn't explained how Reform can shout about waste in the public sector when it's had 14 years of spending cuts... supposedly to make it 'more efficient'.

Primrose53 Thu 20-Jun-24 16:07:44

I was at a market this morning and some men had a Reform stall and were answering questions and handing out leaflets.

I hung around and was genuinely surprised at how many people stopped and asked questions, no heckling just polite observations like “it really is time for a change” and “we will definitely vote Reform.”

MaizieD Thu 20-Jun-24 16:05:41

petra

Sorry, that link isn’t the one, either.

Thanks for trying, petra Your first link sort of worked on my laptop, but I couldn't find the video. However, I found some of his earlier views of the BoE and they agreed more or less with people I follow. grin

Chocolatelovinggran Thu 20-Jun-24 15:50:36

So, if Reform have no access to data, how can it form part of their manifesto?
If there are no numbers or costings, then I cannot see how any candidate could answer this.

ronib Thu 20-Jun-24 15:37:54

Chocolatelovinggran. Am waiting for an ambulance for my elderly friend. Let’s just say that there’s so much wrong with social care and the elderly….. I very much doubt that the Civil Service would give Reform access to its budget for consultants and associated groups. Figures are available to show how the Civil Service has increased its numbers.
I suggest you ask your local Reform candidate for more details? Or Labour or Conservative?

foxie48 Thu 20-Jun-24 15:34:14

Reform/Farage knows how to tap into the worst of people rather than the best. They wrap racism in a tissue of reasonableness. I listened to Farage talking, doing his very creditable impression of the ordinary man in the pub giving every closet racist permission to crawl out and spill their foulness. "It's OK mate, that's what most people think, it's just the woke lot/lefties who don't think like this" I loathe Farage and his ilk , nasty people with nasty ideas but sadly he's a good communicator provided you don't think too much about what he's actually saying. I really hope he doesn't get elected in Clacton and leaves British politics alone.

Chocolatelovinggran Thu 20-Jun-24 15:26:49

ronib- there aren't any figures are there?
If it were something I had proposed in my three year school plan, back in the day, it would have had to be itemised and costed, but hey, that's running a primary school - not needed when you're suggesting how you'd run a country, apparently.

David49 Thu 20-Jun-24 15:16:24

Posted too soon

20 yrs ago borrowing was below 40% of GDP now it’s close to 100%, it was 80% before Brexit. I would like to think growth does happen but it’s going to be an uphill battle. Finding the money in addition to the infrastructure improvements we need is going to be a challenge.

David49 Thu 20-Jun-24 15:03:40

“In effect today, through the sale of bonds and provision of savings facilities, NS&I, the government is just using another method of restricting the amount of money in circulation.
Yes, it costs the government in interest payments, but they are small in relation to the amount of inactive money the 'borrowings' represent. People and institutions deposit their money with the government because it is the safest form of saving. They know that the government will repay their principle at any time they ask for it. It's guaranteed because the government can always create the money for repayment.”

The Government creates new bonds in addition to those that expire and are replaced, this happens continually it been 20 yrs since extra bonds were not issued.

ronib Thu 20-Jun-24 14:52:23

Chocolatelovinggran The fact that there’s so much fluff in politics isn’t unexpected and not new. Obviously Reform is highlighting areas which Labour and Conservatives are not too concerned about? I have an unexpected emergency just now so perhaps you could get some figures?