Starmer's stubbornness

why would you want equality for all? It’s unattainable given the present structures in society

ronib I find in incomprehensible that one wouldn’t want equality for all

I refuse to accept that because something appears ‘unattainable’ we should give up on it. History shows us that the seemingly ‘unattainable’ can be achieved e.g. universal suffrage; same sex marriage to name just two.

LizzieDrip I think it’s very dangerous to want the impossible. Baby steps ….

Joseanne , my sil was I special case I’m sure. She asked my husband (her own husband’s brother) how he could live in the north, surrounded by all those depressing northern towns. I could write the book on her snobbery and shallow mindedness so I’ll stop.

ronib

Glorianny yes I used to think that. I think it’s maybe a bit misguided? The middle classes might be struggling a bit to make ends meet…

You don’t think what I suppose you’d see as ‘lower than middle clssses might struggle to make ends meet?

As for your belief that not every disadvantaged child will become disadvantaged in adult life. Of course some children will have the resilience to get through and build good lives. I know some of them, either friends or children now in their 50’s I knew as deprived and abused children. Some have survived but not easily.

🙊 🙊 🙊

Iam64 seems quite self evident that all types of people might struggle if basic budget management is not a priority. A friend has no stop button when it comes to spending. Definitely middle class but so what?

Ok ronib, I’m backing out now. It isn’t about basic budgeting, it seems you’ve no experience of reality

Iam64 I think we are at cross purposes. If anything my experience is very wide and unusual.

I don’t think we are at cross purposes. I believe our fundamental beliefs are a long way apart

Iam64 it’s very hot and humid tonight so maybe fundamental beliefs best wait….

ronib exactly, baby steps.

I’m not suggesting the ‘unattainable’ can be achieved overnight, but if we don’t start, we won’t achieve anything. I don’t consider it dangerous - why do you think it’s dangerous to strive for better? I dare say those striving for universal suffrage were told it was ‘impossible’🤷‍♀️ Should they have said ‘ok, we’ll give up the fight then’.

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.

LizzieDrip from one point of view, equality for all is a myth. But we are talking in such broad terms that it’s difficult to pin down what we’re talking about. But by baby steps I mean an improvement in living standards and conditions for the bottom of the pyramid but a completely equal society? Well communism hasn’t achieved it. It’s not possible.

Well let’s start with better living standards and conditions for the bottom of the pyramid then i.e. the majority = the aim of a Labour government. A good starting point👍

LizzieDrip am unsure that there’s much thought about the bottom of the pyramid in this election apart from Reform’s attempt to get more people working and taxes starting at £20k and not administering benefits to top up taxed salary. A bit quiet on the subject elsewhere?

ronib the Tory policy to ‘reform welfare’ in order to fund tax cuts, strikes at the heart of those at the very bottom of the pyramid. They have already proposed some of these ‘reforms’ i.e. making the PIP process more difficult.

You’re right though, they’re not talking much about that during the election campaign. God help the disabled and vulnerable if the Tories win this election!