Starmer's stubbornness

I don't have a problem with private schools losing their charitable status, I do have a problem that children currently without an EHCP in the private sector who need one may have to leave their school to be put into a school unable to meet their needs.

Befor

Posted without seeing your last post Sarnia. I hope Labour will enable a much quicker easier route to EHCPs being put in place so that no special needs children suffer, whether in the private or public sector.

Sarnia

Whitewavemark2

I understood the exact opposite.

That an exemption is in place for children with these plans.

I’ll get back on this

The children on the EHCP plans will be exempt. It is the 103.000 SEND children in private education without an EHCP who will be affected.

I am confident that this will not be brought in immediately as I have said, and I suspect that VAT law will be tweaked to accommodate these children.

Rosie51

Whitewavemark2

I understood the exact opposite.

That an exemption is in place for children with these plans.

I’ll get back on this

I thought Sarnia was saying pupils without an EHCP wouldn't be exempt from VAT, she says children with a plan will be exempt. The problem is getting an ECHP is not easy, nor speedy. My own grandson, who is completely state taught at a special school for children with complex special needs, took ages to get one. It took a lot of persistence by his mother to speed things up to even a snail's pace.

My granddaughter mentioned in the OP is at a specialist private school for dyslexic children. Through no fault of the primary school they didn't have the money to deliver her EHCP. 2 years of battles, despair and knockbacks and £20,000 gathered together from all the family and stringent economies for her parents until Surrey County Council conceded and named her present school on the EHCP. 2 years where she fell behind even more. Year 5 and struggling with Year 1 spellings. The whole SEND system is failing from top to bottom and as you say, it is constant fighting. Starmer's refusal to exempt those without an EHCP will likely result in a stampede to local authorities for an EHCP, mostly resulting in the taxpayer footing the bill.

The Labour Party hasn't promised immediate teachers July 5th as everyone well knows would not be possible! Any change after 14 years of austerity will take time.

Conscription, July 5th, anyone?

Sarnia, any increase in numbers processed by EHCP by any government would cost more in terms of what's slowing it down - shortage of staff to assess.

My DiL is involved with that as part of her work as a speech therapist as part of the team.

It's a spiteful move designed to appease the envious spot on Sparklefizz.

Wwm2future engineers, architects, creatives and doctors, politicians also, can be from a private educational system too. The 93 and 7 percent is a bit confusing as they all feed into the United Kingdom?

I have some sympathy with Keir Starmer over all this in that there is an awful lot of unpicking which needs to be done before he can give a definitive answer. It won't happen for another two years in my opinion, and I would hope he will apply some sensitivity. He would be better concentrating on far weightier issues in his campaign because the 20% increase on school fees, which wont be 20% anyway, will not wave a magic wand.

I still don’t understand WHY private schools appear to be passing all the VAT cost directly on to their paying customers! And WHY their paying customers (the parents) aren’t challenging them on this?

If I had a child at a private school, my first port of call would be to question the Headteacher as to WHY they apparently can’t manage their finances in a such a way that, at least, some of this cost can be absorbed by the school🤷‍♀️

I don’t get it. Maybe I’m missing something - please can someone enlighten me!

Smileless2012

^It's a spiteful move designed to appease the envious^ spot on Sparklefizz.

👏👏👏

No one will be able to wave a magic wand to produce properly qualified maths teachers either. Many people with a maths degree choose to work in other areas than teaching because a maths degree is a valuable asset in the jobs market, and maths graduates can earn far more outside teaching.

The ‘politics of envy’ is such a lazy trope.

Believe me (or not - it’s up to you) I’m not in the least bit envious!

Very true.

Private schools aren't applying a flat 20% increase to the fees LizzieDrip. They are working hard to make a distinction between what is education and what is childcare so that parents aren't overburdened with costs. Some of the costs will of coursebe absorbed.
However, don't forget hat private schools need to increase their own fees yearly anyway. They are a business, like any other, they have budgets and a lot of their outgoings have increased recently too.

They are a business, like any other

Precisely Josesnn!

Oops sorry typo Joseann not Josesnn🙈

One of my daughters went to a private secondary school, they used to take girls free if they did very well in the entrance exam but could not afford to pay - this was funded by the local authority but I can't remember the name of the scheme.
The policy was discontinued in the 1990's and our school raised several million pounds so that they could continue to offer free places, but they could only use the income on the funds so could only take a couple of pupils per school year.
I do appreciate that many of the parents at private schools are very wealthy and could well afford an extra 20%. However private schools do everything they can to keep fees low as some parents struggle to raise the fees. Not every parent is wealthy by any means and I feel for those who have gone without holidays, cars, lived in very small properties and existed very frugally, all to fund the cost of private education. They won't be able to keep their children at the schools.
I doubt very much that teachers will flock back to the state sector, there is already a shortage of science teachers in both state and private schools and working in a comprehensive is not a very attractive proposition at the moment.
State schools will have to take additional students if there is room - which is certainly not guaranteed, particularly in those which score better in inspections. I've no idea what will happen if there is simply not room for everyone.

For goodness sake, I know very few people who can actually afford to educate their children privately, particularly at secondary level.

Independent schools are NOT charities, even though they are registered as such.

Back in the day, when there were far fewer independent schools, many good bursaries and scholarships were available to bright “working class” pupils. Though they got a “better more rounded and privileged” education, many scholarship boys had a miserable time, not fitting in with their peers at school or at home.

I have no issue whatsoever with parents choosing private nurseries and private education, just be prepared to pay the full fees and the VAT.

Many parents will keep their children in these schools, those that have to transfer into the state system, and I’ve know a few over the years, will adjust and can do just as well.

Whilst I agree Education needs reform and far more funding, my daughter’s school has just made 6 LSA’s redundant (or not continued their contacts), purely based on budgetary restraints.

She will have a year 1 class next year of 33, she’s moving up alongside her current reception class for continuity, without including her 7 SEN children (only one fully assessed and funding and he has a 1-2-1 LSA, but she now has no class LSA), all her class bar the aforementioned have hit their personal targets and are moving up with confidence.

Btw, Sarnia, the state system isn’t always “second-best” many many children so well.

Notwithstanding this, why do you it’s ok for most of us to “put up with second-best” for our own children and grand-chikdren?

Only a charity can be registered as such Cossy.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/what-makes-a-charity-cc4/what-makes-a-charity-cc4

LizzieDrip

I still don’t understand WHY private schools appear to be passing all the VAT cost directly on to their paying customers! And WHY their paying customers (the parents) aren’t challenging them on this?

If I had a child at a private school, my first port of call would be to question the Headteacher as to WHY they apparently can’t manage their finances in a such a way that, at least, some of this cost can be absorbed by the school🤷‍♀️

I don’t get it. Maybe I’m missing something - please can someone enlighten me!

If private schools are made to register for VAT they have to charge VAT on their invoices (term bills) as all companies who are registered have to.

Not to do so would be illegal.

Exactly. I hope Lizzie is now enlightened.

Rosie51

Whitewavemark2

I understood the exact opposite.

That an exemption is in place for children with these plans.

I’ll get back on this

I thought Sarnia was saying pupils without an EHCP wouldn't be exempt from VAT, she says children with a plan will be exempt. The problem is getting an ECHP is not easy, nor speedy. My own grandson, who is completely state taught at a special school for children with complex special needs, took ages to get one. It took a lot of persistence by his mother to speed things up to even a snail's pace.

There was someone on the radio this morning saying that many people have paid quite a lot of money to have their children privately assessed to try to speed up the process, otherwise the child falls further and further behind whilst they are waiting in the queue for an EHCP.
In my GD's current state primary school there are at least five children in her mainstream year who have EHCP's because of their autism and the school gets some additional help. However the extra help is really not the equivalent of being in a specialised school and more than one parent is desperately trying to find somewhere else. My GD's last school contained a very over-subscribed special unit for children with autism.