Starmer's stubbornness

If people think that independent schools are exclusively the domain of the wealthy and social climbers, then they are very wrong. It's just a perception, as not many improve their social position by just mixing with those of the upper classes. There's a lot more to it than that. Namely, at private schools, pupils are encouraged to be at the top of their game and to build on their own strengths. They, and their parents, really don't fixate on hierarchy.

I got where I did by what I knew, as did my son and his wife. There never has been such a thing as equal opportunities in my experience.

Germanshepherdsmum

Anything wrong with social climbing, or should we all know our place and stay there?

No, but people claiming it is about education are being disingenuous.

We all know we live in a society where what matters isn't what you know but who you know, a life lesson I learned all too late in life after believing in equal opportunities...

There’s nothing wrong with social mobility. That’s precisely why a system such as private education, which mitigates against it, is a problem.

Anything wrong with social climbing, or should we all know our place and stay there?

vegansrock

Being accused of envy when one wants equality for all is just another attempt at gaslighting.

Yes it is- I suppose this is the answer I should have given!

However I still believe private schooling is more about social climbing than education...

Glorianny yes I used to think that. I think it’s maybe a bit misguided? The middle classes might be struggling a bit to make ends meet…

ronib

Glorianny

Funny though isn't it that most footballers are working class and attend state schools although they are recruited by the major teams at an early age and attend Football academies. Some of them go on to be major league players some don't. But it isn't the private schools that provide the majority of players. The Premier League clubs invest massively in this of course.
The class system it seems in still active in sport.

Glorianny but some people really hinder their children by wanting them to do useful and meaningful work. Research engineering, medicine and jobs needing years of study and application. For the greater good?

Are these the parents of children in private or state schools? I've always thought a parent's job was to encourage a child to develop and use their talents and abilities to the full, whatever they were.

Glorianny

Funny though isn't it that most footballers are working class and attend state schools although they are recruited by the major teams at an early age and attend Football academies. Some of them go on to be major league players some don't. But it isn't the private schools that provide the majority of players. The Premier League clubs invest massively in this of course.
The class system it seems in still active in sport.

Glorianny but some people really hinder their children by wanting them to do useful and meaningful work. Research engineering, medicine and jobs needing years of study and application. For the greater good?

Being accused of envy when one wants equality for all is just another attempt at gaslighting.

keepingquiet

I prefer the so called politics of envy to the very real politics of exploitation.

For me private schools have rarely been about education (they can choose other examination systems which are not as rigorous as GCSEs for example) but about getting a lift up the social ladder.

Some Tory Prime ministers are a case in point... not really that clever are they?

We have to be very aware of the roots of that term, "the politics of envy" (no criticism of you, Keeping Quiet 🙂!)

“The politics of Envy” is a Right wing meme originating in the 1990’s in the USA, and appears as the title in 2 books, one by Anne Hendershott, another by Doug Bandow.

Both writers draw on right wing think tanks to use the expression on anyone who seeks social justice or equality.

Both use toxic and dramatic terms - almost apocalyptic - to draw in a psychological term into a political viewpoint that suits a narrative to try and silence by accusing them of a “deadly sin”.

It’s ow being adopted by the right here in order to try and shame or shut down opponents. It’s a cowardly and toxic way of personally attacking someone.

…… and doesnt match the politics of any GN I’ve read in here or the many people I know who want to make the world a better place for the many.

Funny though isn't it that most footballers are working class and attend state schools although they are recruited by the major teams at an early age and attend Football academies. Some of them go on to be major league players some don't. But it isn't the private schools that provide the majority of players. The Premier League clubs invest massively in this of course.
The class system it seems in still active in sport.

GrauntyHelen

It's outrageous that private schools have been treated like charities this far They are lucrative businesses. There are already protections that except disabled people from Vat with regards to products and services related to that disability that can be used I'm no fan of the red Tory that Starmer has become but I will take him over Rishi and his many hopeless predecessors who have got us in to the state we are in !

Not sure if you can use disability exemption from VAT in this way - it’s not a blanket exemption and has to be on goods and services which are disability related.

It isn’t skill that’s lacking. No, its about every child in every school achieving their full potential.

Though Olympic Size swimming pools help!

The funding to state schools have been cut drastically over the last 14 years. At least in the Blair years there was far more money in the system for schools to hire SEN support, TAs, sports coaches and the like. Now so many state schools are struggling . Let’s hope if LP gets in they improve funding for state schools so children can get the help they need, plus services such as CAMHS and Ed Psychs have their funding restored so there are not lengthy waits for assessments.

I’m sure state school pupils have a similar ratio of athletes Joseann. It isn’t skill that’s lacking. A friends grandson was offered a private school place specialising in cricket after he was selected for county. He’s 10. Grandparents will pay the fees. It’s possible the younger brother stays in the state system
I hope it all works well
- I recognise his talent and accept our local high school won’t offer him the opportunity to excel but I’m uncomfortable with elitism

Pity that people with such ability couldn’t achieve their full potential without being able to use the excellent facilities that private school pupils enjoy

Privately educated people also do well in The Olympics too, Iam64. I think over a third of our competitors attended private schools. That's probably more athletes than countries like Pakistan enter for The Games in total.
And also athletes from state schools have benefited from partnerships with private schools. I think Adam Peaty, (swimmer who was also on Strictly!), went to a state school but trained at Repton, and maybe also Tom Daley who trained at Plymouth College. Millfield also offers scholarships to budding sportsmen and women. My DSiL attended for free because he was a talented rugby player who couldn't afford the fees.
Oh yes, and another swimmer Duncan Goodhew had a free place at Millfield when his father died.

One third of BBC top paid employees were privately educated
One thing most privately educated people share is the ability to present themselves as supremely confident in their own abilities.
As GSM mentioned earlier, some interview panels look at which school the applicant went to
The Old School Tie appears to be thriving

I prefer the so called politics of envy to the very real politics of exploitation.

For me private schools have rarely been about education (they can choose other examination systems which are not as rigorous as GCSEs for example) but about getting a lift up the social ladder.

Some Tory Prime ministers are a case in point... not really that clever are they?

Whitewavemark2

Yes I can confirm that these children will be exempt from paying VAT on the educational services they receive from private schooling.

This won't help if the school closes. The likes of Harrow and Eaton and other bigger schools, who are sponsored by rich backers will not face this but smaller private schools that offer specialist learning or simply excellent learning support will close and the children will face huge disruption and have to find a placement in the state system that is already overwhelmed. This is a disaster.

The speaker has to be elected or re-elected after a GE so yes, Hoyle may go.

Will there be a new Speaker? If so, who will it be? I was chatting to someone yesterday who said that he, like me, had complained to the Speakers office over the past few years as many times as he had written to our local Johnson supporting Conservative MP.

Lilyflower

It’s and envy and spite tax, nothing less. If it breaks even it will be a miracle, as Labour already knows and has been told by public finance bodies.

It is my observation over the years, that those who harbour negative emotions such as spite, envy, anger, resentment and bitterness are eaten up by them and never thrive. This, rather than the ‘luck’ of others is what causes them to fail. Those who strive to be happy, contented and grateful generally are ‘blessed’ by good fortune.

Wow! Perfect analysis!

Starmer would have undoubtedly at the very least suspended this last lot of corrupt Tories.

I have complete faith that the type of corruption and chaos we’ve been unfortunate enough to witness particularly since 2019, (but imo it started with the lies over Brexit ) will stop and all being well by this time next year our parliament will be functioning as it used to do without the constant drama and incompetence.

Just think how boring it will seem, but what a relief!

Just as the USA must have felt after Trump.