The opinion of the IFS on the parties’ manifestos

Casdon, thank you, an excellent article, but how many of the anti labour brigade will read it . They should .

westendgirl

This was in yesterdays Sunday Times."Schools hit by VAT rise could join state sector." Liverpool College converted to the State sector in 2013 , is seen as Liverpool's outstanding co-ed school and the head teacher said private school principals had been contacting the school to ask how they went about converting to the state sector. Interesting.

I'm surprised you didn't see this GSM (page 2) as you saw the article about Keir Starmer or at least a footnote .

ex

I haven’t yet read the ST. That’s for this evening. I looked through the ST supplement which had a long article about Starmer. Didn’t you notice that? His scared rabbit face was plastered all over the cover so you surely couldn’t have missed it?

I am also wary of the IFS...

The issue is not that the conclusions of the IFS's studies are predictable and easily anticipated; it is that its studies are not always as objective as they claim. They often apply the wrong tools, and treat macroeconomic issues as if they were microeconomic. As Robert Chote, the former director of the IFS admitted: “they don’t do macro”.

By ignoring social, political and macroeconomic effects, IFS studies do not tell us whether a policy is a good idea, only whether "the numbers add up".

From: www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/we-need-talk-about-institute-fiscal-studies/

Germanshepherdsmum

westendgirl

This was in yesterdays Sunday Times."Schools hit by VAT rise could join state sector." Liverpool College converted to the State sector in 2013 , is seen as Liverpool's outstanding co-ed school and the head teacher said private school principals had been contacting the school to ask how they went about converting to the state sector. Interesting.

I'm surprised you didn't see this GSM (page 2) as you saw the article about Keir Starmer or at least a footnote .

ex

I haven’t yet read the ST. That’s for this evening. I looked through the ST supplement which had a long article about Starmer. Didn’t you notice that? His scared rabbit face was plastered all over the cover so you surely couldn’t have missed it?

Oh come on. I’ve read that article and he hasn’t got a scared rabbit face in that picture. Your hatred of him is clouding your judgement methinks

I think GSMs judgment and common sense has been very good all along.

Sparklefizz

I think GSMs judgment and common sense has been very good all along.

I was referring to the picture of Starmer. Have you seen and, if so do you agree that it’s a scared rabbit face? If not you don’t know if her judgement re the picture is correct or not. I await your reply with interest.

When you point out Starmer's flaws I think about Boris Johnson... it isn't about image anymore, thank goodness.

MayBee70

Think I’d rather have Reeves as chancellor who at least has a background in the subject ( and Mark Carney think highly of her) than someone that wasn’t a particularly good health Secretary whose austerity cuts made us ill prepared for a pandemic. But the main problem with this Conservative government is that most of the good, decent experienced MP’s have gone and we’re left with the Bravermans, Patels etc. Plus a new intake ( if they get elected) of MP’s with no experience in government at all. The party is tired and fragmented. So it isn’t a case of better the devil we know because we won’t know many of them and those we do know of don’t exactly inspire confidence.

Completely agree.

quite unashamedly adore some of them

Goodness!
I don’t adore any politician and never have. What an extraordinary thing to say.

Whitewavemark2

I don’t vote for crime, law breaking, corruption, cronyism or fraud, whatever the colour of the party.

Never have, never will

That about sums it up. When we reach a point where we no longer care about these things then we truly are jn a mess.

westendgirl, I think that Liverpool Blue Coat would challenge your assertion about which is the top performing co-ed secondary school in Liverpool. On whose judgement have you bases your statement?

maddyone

^quite unashamedly adore some of them^

Goodness!
I don’t adore any politician and never have. What an extraordinary thing to say.

Apologies for being so pathetic then maddyone. I probably get more emotional about politics than some people and when a politician makes a great speech in parliament ( thinking of speeches by Chris Bryant, Jess Phillips, Chris Leslie ( sadly no longer an MP), Hilary Benn; going back a long way Robin Cooks resignation speech etc) I do adore them for publicly voicing just what I am thinking and feeling. Would you feel happier about it if I substituted the word admire: if so I’ll ask HQ to change what I’ve written. Or ask them to remove it as I’ve obviously, in your opinion, made a complete fool of myself.

GrannySomerset

*westendgirl*, I think that Liverpool Blue Coat would challenge your assertion about which is the top performing co-ed secondary school in Liverpool. On whose judgement have you bases your statement?

"Top performing" and "outstanding" aren't the same thing. Liverpool Blue Coat is a selective school, so I would expect its exam results to be very good. Liverpool College has a comprehensive intake.

No problem Maybee, but yes, I think admire is a much more appropriate word. There have been a few politicians that I have admired but not many. The one I admire the most is Winston Churchill. I was constantly told by my mother how he saved Britain in WW2. Actually a lot of people saved Britain but he was certainly an inspirational leader at the time I think. The words that do always move me are the we will fight them on the beaches speech. I recently rewatched The Darkest Hour and it pretty much ends with that speech. I know everyone in the country used to huddle around the radio during the war (my mother told me that too) and listen to his speeches, and I’m sure they found him to be inspirational, which of course was what he needed them to be. He was very much an imperfect man, but he was a great leader.

There are a few others I admire or did admire. Tony Benn, Charles Kennedy (even though he did die of alcoholism) and Kenneth Clarke. There could be one or two others but I’d have to root around in my brain to find them. Generally I don’t really care for politicians and I just expect them to do their job.

I rather liked Tony Blair till he took us into two wars, and today I like Penny Mordaunt, but I think she’s very likely to lose her seat, which is sad because I think she’s a genuine person. I loved watching her carry that sword at the coronation. But Churchill definitely takes the prize in my book.

Germanshepherdsmum

How many in the shadow cabinet have experience in government MayBee?

That’s just daft, how many in Blair's government had experience, in any case they have to follow existing commitments until changes are approved by parliament. Starmers policies in manifesto seem reasonable to me, more taxes for the wealthy are long overdue.

maddyone - when Tony Blair's government won the election I felt it was yet another Tory. As a left-leaning person it seemed very sad that we had moved so far to the right. I have never liked him but realise that his emollient language was what got Labour "in". Once in, he did do some good things such as prioritise SureStart. Penny Mordaunt - No! Just no!

How many of the recent Conservative ministers had much experience of being an MP before being offered government posts? Keegan became an MP in 2017 and held a number of junior posts for five minutes before being given education. Every time there was a new PM she got promoted or demoted depending on who she'd supported not how competent she was. This is true of all the cabinet, in and out like a fiddler's elbow. BTW did you know she's married to the former UK head of Fujitsu? He was also a government advisor until quite recently. I'm not implying any wrong doing but it shows that the government had links with Fujitsu all through the post office enquiry.

Yes Gsm I read the supplement from cover to cover and found the article about Keir Starmer good reading. I know you as you have already made up your mind about his future potential.
Can i suggest you try to be more open minded as your deep dislike of the man is spoiling your usually good posts.

Second sentence should start I know you wont as

I deeply dislike his party and a number of his shadow ministers. I don’t see him as a strong leader. I am no more vitriolic about him and Labour in general than other posters are about Sunak and the Conservatives. Perhaps tell some of the Tory bashers and those who despise independent schools to be more open minded.

MayBee70

Think I’d rather have Reeves as chancellor who at least has a background in the subject ( and Mark Carney think highly of her) than someone that wasn’t a particularly good health Secretary whose austerity cuts made us ill prepared for a pandemic. But the main problem with this Conservative government is that most of the good, decent experienced MP’s have gone and we’re left with the Bravermans, Patels etc. Plus a new intake ( if they get elected) of MP’s with no experience in government at all. The party is tired and fragmented. So it isn’t a case of better the devil we know because we won’t know many of them and those we do know of don’t exactly inspire confidence.

Voting Labour in our new constituency, you'll voting for a bloke who has not made himself known, and is therefore unknown to the local population. His hoppo, our new local councillor, has been canvassing for him, slagging off our elected MPs, really professional, not. Both Lawyers, apparently. So even in sainted Labour you can be voting for the unknown, cant you? Not me of course.

The problem with this Tory government is that it’s split. They started off in 2019 with a huge mandate but chucked it away dithering and arguing amongst themselves. I have little if any confidence in them regarding them only marginally better than Starmer who has his own divisions and factions to deal with. Interestingly Europe is moving more to the right so we are likely to be out of kilter again.

I despair for this country.

Germanshepherdsmum

I deeply dislike his party and a number of his shadow ministers. I don’t see him as a strong leader. I am no more vitriolic about him and Labour in general than other posters are about Sunak and the Conservatives. Perhaps tell some of the Tory bashers and those who despise independent schools to be more open minded.

The tories have spent the last 14 years giving us ample reasons for our criticisms. They have been incompetent, mendacious and demonstrably corrupt. They have brought our public services to their knees and failed to curb the profiteering and incompetence of privatised utilities.

What has Labour done to deserve what you think is equal vitriol?

Germanshepherdsmum

I deeply dislike his party and a number of his shadow ministers. I don’t see him as a strong leader. I am no more vitriolic about him and Labour in general than other posters are about Sunak and the Conservatives. Perhaps tell some of the Tory bashers and those who despise independent schools to be more open minded.

Having a dislike of a two-tier system of education that disadvantages the majority (which I do) is not remotely the same as being vitriolic towards individuals (something I don't do), particularly when the individuals in question have not been in charge of a party with a string of corruption incidents and double standards for the past decade and a half. It's perfectly possible to do one without the other.

Of course I can understand self-interest meaning that those who stand to lose some of the advantages they've had under the Tories meaning they won't vote for Starmer, but attacking him personally is unnecessary.

Germanshepherdsmum

I deeply dislike his party and a number of his shadow ministers. I don’t see him as a strong leader. I am no more vitriolic about him and Labour in general than other posters are about Sunak and the Conservatives. Perhaps tell some of the Tory bashers and those who despise independent schools to be more open minded.

You’ll have earned the right to be vitriolic once you’ve had five years of the most incompetent and sleazy government the UK has ever had Germanshepherdsmum. At the moment your vitriol is based purely on ‘might be’ not on fact, because none of us know what’s going to happen. That’s the difference.