Trans women have a cervix according to David Lammy.

VioletSky

Doodledog what does acceptance look like to you then?

If I thought mine was the only kind of acceptance, I would not be asking what it looks like to someone else

As yet I haven't had a single answer of acceptance except "I accept they feel that way* which is classic putting the issue back on someone else

It’s not a word I would choose in this context, as to me it goes without saying. To accept is to agree that something is true - I accept that the Earth is round - or to tolerate something or someone - I accept that bell ringers practise on Tuesdays.

Neither is applicable to transpeople, who are human beings who have as much right to exist as I do. What males do not have, however, is the right to be in female spaces.

GrannyGravy13

VioletSky I cannot remember what you have posted on other threads.

You are repeatedly asking for others definition of acceptance.

I was just wondering what your views on acceptance are?

Oh. Well I respect people enough to ask them their views instead of telling them their views which is very unhealthy

I have shared what I feel acceptance is and what trans people feel acceptance is

What does it look like to you?

What does you being bisexual have to do with this discussion VS? Why if we knew one another in real life, would you have the need to tell me that your are?

I would accept that you are bisexual, just as I would accept that a trans woman is a trans woman but I wont accept that a trans woman is a woman, because they're not.

Sadly , you ARE the issue here!

VioletSky

I accept that anyone can present themselves however they like.

I accept trans women and trans men.

I do not accept that trans women are women.

I do not accept that trans men are men.

Adults can have consensual sex with whoever they like, I have no desire to know.

Bridie22

Sadly , you ARE the issue here!

How?

Because I'm somehow so dangerous to this discussion that people need to twist my words, pretend I think or say things I don't and attack me on a personal level?

You twist your own words and you never answer questions, not much of a discussion.

Smileless2012

What does you being bisexual have to do with this discussion VS? Why if we knew one another in real life, would you have the need to tell me that your are?

I would accept that you are bisexual, just as I would accept that a trans woman is a trans woman but I wont accept that a trans woman is a woman, because they're not.

Oh my gosh

This is interesting

I made a comparison to things I personally face as a different demographic to straight women and you can't handle knowing that about me? Lol

Likely I wouldn't tell you in real life because you wouldn't be a friend to me but obviously everyone knows, should I hide it?

Then you don't accept trans women, please don't say you do... Because it isn't true, acceptance is about embracing people for who they are... Not accepting that they exist against your judgement

Bridie22

You twist your own words and you never answer questions, not much of a discussion.

If you say so it must be true right?

This is a train wreck and I think you all know it

I'll leave you to a thread that has no acceptance of trans people or different views to your own

I haven’t made any untrue statements VS. Whereas you constantly accuse posters on here of not accepting TW, which is untrue.

I say that accepting people’s right to feel they are something they are not is OK as long as it doesn’t harm others.

You don’t accept that. That’s your choice, but it doesn’t make your version of acceptance true.

Transwomen aren’t women, because women are are adult human females and

Trans Women Are Transwomen VS.

Those people suffering from gender dysphoria are welcome to dress and feel however they like.

Until the upsurge of males cheating by competing in female sport or making it obvious that they are male in female safe spaces thus intimidating females, TIM have, if we are to believe claims on GN, been living among us unnoticed for years.

The need for acceptance you keep asking for has come about because of the actions of a minority of TIM and TRA which are detrimental to females.

Your acceptance keeps on about trans rights. What rights don’t TIM have, other than those that have a detrimental impact on females?
You say you aren’t going to respond to me. That’s OK.
I don’t need a response from you VS and I don’t expect an apology for all the times you have said that people (except you) don’t accept trans. It would be meaningless anyway.

VS Nobody is unable to 'handle' the fact that you are bisexual. We just don't care. Why in the name of all that's holy do you think that anyone would care about your sexuality, or that of any other poster. You aren't the only one - it's just that nobody else wants to go on about it. It proves nothing about anything, and that includes anything about transpeople. Sexuality and so-called 'gender' are separate issues - sexuality is not even an issue really, if people act on it in a consensual manner, as I'm sure you do. It's your own private Idaho.

Hide it, don't hide it, flaunt it if you must. Nobody cares, and nobody is likely to want to embrace you for something irrelevant.

What does 'not accepting that [someone] exists outside your judgement' mean?

And none of this explains why you feel able to qualify your own acceptance of transpeople according to your own personal beliefs, but you don't afford others the same rights.

Well put Doodledog, but I fear your wisdom will fall on stony ground or into deaf ears.

VioletSky

Galaxy acceptance is that trans women are women, trans women... but women. So using pronouns and not saying "You are a man really" is one way to show acceptance

IF we, Doodledog, Galaxy, GrannyGravy13, and others, were to accept that transwomen are women - which is your interpretation of 'acceptance' of the trans community - then the protected characteristics of biological sex would be utterly meaningless and that would result in there being no such thing as a "safe space" for women; it would mean that men could compete in women's sport with all the advantages of the male physique to the disadvantage of women.

It would mean, though you will not understand this, that women as a biological entity would cease to exist.

It has been pointed out, several times, but you muddy the waters by bringing into the equation those who suffer from DSD - who are a very small minority and who we are not discussing nor referring to (as per their wishes) - that regardless of any surgical or cosmetic changes, you cannot alter your chromosomes.

These bundles of DNA are in almost every single cell in the body, they determine your sex. So what you are asking us to accept is that we ignore this science and pretend that a man who mentally and emotionally identifies as a woman - is one. Because he feels like one.

He - whoever he is - whose gender identity is female, is a trans woman and will always be a trans woman.

And what we, or certainly me, don't understand, is why a trans woman cannot be satisfied with being accepted as such.

Gender is gender, and sex is sex, they are not the same and unless it is ever possible to alter your chromosomes which is highly unlikely, the two will remain separate entities. One a biological fact, the other an inner, mental and emotional sense of oneself.

You understand the way in which trans women will not accept this definition, this difference, and are determined to negate it in order to 'become' women?

Well that's how we women feel about the fact that we are women and do not want to become a diluted sex because of a man's internal sense of himself.

Because that does not make him a woman. Biology matters, And it matters because there is a sub-set of misogynistic men who want to claim womanhood in order to destroy its very essence. Thankfully, a minority - but it is this minority who are clamouring with the loudest voices and with aggression to demand that women budge over and accommodate their demands, attempting it sometimes through violence and threats. All this against the very sex that they 'identify' with.

So, I accept trans women as trans women - and good luck to them, as trans women, I wish them health and happiness, which in your playbook will mean that I don't accept them. Which is fine by me because at least now I know what you mean by acceptance.

Dickens 👏👏👏

And if we all said the mantra, it still wouldnt make it true.
As I get older I think that telling the truth is one of the most important things.

Dickens you have said what I would like to say if only I were as eloquent.

I cannot participate, because people do not read what I actually say and are being personal

If you would like me to answer that has to stop

Doodledog

VS Nobody is unable to 'handle' the fact that you are bisexual. We just don't care. Why in the name of all that's holy do you think that anyone would care about your sexuality, or that of any other poster. You aren't the only one - it's just that nobody else wants to go on about it. It proves nothing about anything, and that includes anything about transpeople. Sexuality and so-called 'gender' are separate issues - sexuality is not even an issue really, if people act on it in a consensual manner, as I'm sure you do. It's your own private Idaho.

Hide it, don't hide it, flaunt it if you must. Nobody cares, and nobody is likely to want to embrace you for something irrelevant.

What does 'not accepting that [someone] exists outside your judgement' mean?

And none of this explains why you feel able to qualify your own acceptance of transpeople according to your own personal beliefs, but you don't afford others the same rights.

Doodledog

Why in the name of all that's holy do you think that anyone would care about your sexuality

I'd imagine it's quite possible that a number of posters we've interacted with during our years on GN are gay, or bi - or even asexual. I think it's academic. We are a huge group of people, it's inevitable.

And, as you say, why would anyone care, or even be remotely interested unless they were posing a question specifically relating to the issue of their sexuality, in which case I think the majority of GNetters would - as they mostly do when someone needs 'advice', give a thoughtful reply to the best of their ability.

Apart from that. It's irrelevant. It may be old age, but I have a distinct lack of interest in other people's sex-lives or orientation.

And none of this explains why you feel able to qualify your own acceptance of transpeople according to your own personal beliefs, but you don't afford others the same rights.

... the very heart of the matter.

I think it unrolls like this: unless you accept VS's personal belief(s) on trans 'issues' - then you are not accepting of trans people.

Utter madness.

VioletSky

I cannot participate, because people do not read what I actually say and are being personal

If you would like me to answer that has to stop

No one is being personal Violet Sky.

They are challenging your assumptions and assertions, not you.

Indeed, Dickens. VS you are 'lolling' at people, saying we 'can't handle' fairly pedestrian facts about your sexuality, and accusing us of 'not accepting' transpeople, yet you say we are being personal about you.

It's yet another case of double standards. You can be personal, you can qualify your acceptance of transpeople, but you are quick to accuse others of things we are not doing.

Someone built a building with a gender neutral option for toileting?

The public toilets outside the Tower of London are for everyone. Lots of individual cubicles, everyone queuing together.

The mens toilets at my local train station were out of action last Wednesday.
A very apologetic young man came into the ladies while I was washing my hands.

If it's double standards

Point out both

That's fair right?

But I'm just a happy person who likes humour