Anyone else feel a sense of impending doom that we’ll have a Labour government tomorrow?

ronib

growstuff the evidence is that the Association for the First Division took the Conservative government to court to challenge the legality of its immigration policy. The judge found in favour of the government.
Just to be clear I am not a supporter of Reform …… I have not paid £25!

And so they should have done! In the UK, the law is supreme - and thank goodness for that. Just imagine if real nutters were to be in government and order something outrageous, such as the execution of everybody with a certain religion. The law would stop them. If you think that's far-fetched, just cast your mind back to 1930s Germany. Any government must behave within the constraints of the law.

There won’t be lots more doctors for years Molly unfortunately. It takes many years to train a doctor and they can’t go straight into GP surgeries without a further three year training course. Many more doctors in the immediate future is impossible. Where are they coming from? Like the 6000 more teachers, they’re coming from cloud cuckoo land. An improved offer to the doctors is crucial but it won’t solve the doctor shortage.

growstuff what do you mean? The civil service is there to carry out the wishes of government. The law is supreme? Are you not understanding that the Civil Service deliberately held up the law on immigration to prevent the Conservative policy being enacted? The government was acting lawfully.

Indeed the government must act within the law, but the law can be changed!

First priority - keep the doctors we have already. BMA notes this.

Yes the increase will only eventually come from more training.
In terms of recruitment from abroad, the BMA points out that the immigration points system needs to be changed to allow doctors families to come with them.

www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-responds-to-labour-party-manifesto

ronib

growstuff what do you mean? The civil service is there to carry out the wishes of government. The law is supreme? Are you not understanding that the Civil Service deliberately held up the law on immigration to prevent the Conservative policy being enacted? The government was acting lawfully.

I understand more than you seem to think. The government cannot get the civil service do something which is unlawful.

maddyone

Indeed the government must act within the law, but the law can be changed!

Yes, it can be changed, but the government has to go through parliamentary procedure to do that. No government can act in an unlawful way.

ronib

growstuff what do you mean? The civil service is there to carry out the wishes of government. The law is supreme? Are you not understanding that the Civil Service deliberately held up the law on immigration to prevent the Conservative policy being enacted? The government was acting lawfully.

No ronib the government was not acting lawfully.

maddyone

There won’t be lots more doctors for years Molly unfortunately. It takes many years to train a doctor and they can’t go straight into GP surgeries without a further three year training course. Many more doctors in the immediate future is impossible. Where are they coming from? Like the 6000 more teachers, they’re coming from cloud cuckoo land. An improved offer to the doctors is crucial but it won’t solve the doctor shortage.

There is, the BMA say, a significant number of doctors who cannot get work, as a result of the last government preventing practices from hiring doctors and practice nurses.

Alongside that, BMA research shows that locum doctors are finding it difficult to get positions (again because of the previous governments restrictions on hiring) www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/over-80-of-locum-gps-struggle-to-find-work-finds-bma-survey

Cuts in funding - or reallocating budgets away from primary care - have obviously also had an impact.

I’m not suggesting there is a miracle overnight cure, and there is clearly a need to look at recruitment and training, but there are steps that can be taken quickly which will have a positive impact.

A lot of ‘Yes,Minister’ seems to go on whatever party is in power.

maddyone

There won’t be lots more doctors for years Molly unfortunately. It takes many years to train a doctor and they can’t go straight into GP surgeries without a further three year training course. Many more doctors in the immediate future is impossible. Where are they coming from? Like the 6000 more teachers, they’re coming from cloud cuckoo land. An improved offer to the doctors is crucial but it won’t solve the doctor shortage.

There could be more funding for GP practices to employ the newly trained GPs who currently can't find jobs. The government could also listen to GPs and find out why so many are going abroad or leaving the profession - and maybe do something to alleviate the pressures.

As with teachers, maybe there could be a limit to the amount of red tape and an effort to value them more.

ronib

Doodledog and LizzieDrip there’s recognition that this country has now moved away from lawlessness and disorder but caused by an absence of cohesive government? Surely caused by a bureaucracy which failed to endorse the policies of the Conservative government?
However if the sunlit uplands are in sight under Labour, all well and good as this country is in desperate need of better governance. But it’s very early days and the bureaucracy is happy for the time being. Will it last?

Who knows. There is a lot of ground to make up. But the lawlessness has been seen in the lack of respect for the law by partying politicians, by cronyism and so on, and is almost certainly one of the main reasons the Tories did as badly as they did.

I don't have a sense of impending doom - more a sense of hope that it's not too late to turn the corner, but I don't know whether that is the case or not.

Growstuff read the judgement? I assume you have?

maddyone

There won’t be lots more doctors for years Molly unfortunately. It takes many years to train a doctor and they can’t go straight into GP surgeries without a further three year training course. Many more doctors in the immediate future is impossible. Where are they coming from? Like the 6000 more teachers, they’re coming from cloud cuckoo land. An improved offer to the doctors is crucial but it won’t solve the doctor shortage.

I know, but that’s what we’re told.
growstuff
There could be more funding for GP practices to employ the newly trained GPs who currently can't find jobs.

There could indeed. I’ll be looking out for it, but where will it come from? Will my pension be hit again?

Thank you for the link Siope. Sadly it confirms what I was already aware of. I’m actually sickened by what the previous government have done to the NHS, especially to GP practice. How dare they block GP practices from employing doctors? I’m utterly disgusted by this. I obviously knew that Physician Associates are being trained and used in GP practice, but did the previous government actually think that people trained to an inferior standard are acceptable to replace properly qualified doctors?

Huge increase in number of medical students here. In six years time we'll start to reap the benefits. Unfortunately, for us, very few Scottish ones as far as I could see during the recent exams.

I honestly don't think the ordinary person in the street will notice any difference now Labour's in power. The next budget they bring out might reveal some nasty shocks though.

It would be quite nice if all the GPs in our practive could do surgeries every day. I appreciate that they have other work to do within the practice, but doing surgeries 4 days a week instead of 2 would make an enormous difference.

I would be wary of persistently unemployed GPs going back to work without a lot of checks.

A friend was a was the legal chair of Social Security Tribunals, many unemployed doctors worked for the DWP carrying out examinations for long term sick pay PIP etc etc. Her comments on the quality of the medical reports she received and the doctors who wrote them, could only make on glad that they couldn't get jobs as GPs.

ronib

Growstuff read the judgement? I assume you have?

You assume correctly.

maddyone

Thank you for the link Siope. Sadly it confirms what I was already aware of. I’m actually sickened by what the previous government have done to the NHS, especially to GP practice. How dare they block GP practices from employing doctors? I’m utterly disgusted by this. I obviously knew that Physician Associates are being trained and used in GP practice, but did the previous government actually think that people trained to an inferior standard are acceptable to replace properly qualified doctors?

It seems like they did.

Like MOnica, I'd like to see GPs working longer hours seeing patients, not spending their time on paperwork and trying to hit targets.

Practice nurses, paramedics, PAs etc have a place and can help relieve some of the pressure, but there's evidence they're not always properly supervised. It's appalling that practices can't employ more GPs, but are allowed funding for other staff.

Mollygo

maddyone

There won’t be lots more doctors for years Molly unfortunately. It takes many years to train a doctor and they can’t go straight into GP surgeries without a further three year training course. Many more doctors in the immediate future is impossible. Where are they coming from? Like the 6000 more teachers, they’re coming from cloud cuckoo land. An improved offer to the doctors is crucial but it won’t solve the doctor shortage.

I know, but that’s what we’re told.
growstuff
There could be more funding for GP practices to employ the newly trained GPs who currently can't find jobs.

There could indeed. I’ll be looking out for it, but where will it come from? Will my pension be hit again?

No idea whether your pension will be hit, but on balance I'd rather have better GP services than a higher pension and have to pay for my medical care.

I don’t mind my pension being hit to improve the nhs

Whitewavemark2

Blimey ronib have you swallowed Reform hook line and sinker😄😄.

I would take a deep breath if I were you

I find it enlightening to hear other views, no matter how ridiculous they are.

maddyone

There won’t be lots more doctors for years Molly unfortunately. It takes many years to train a doctor and they can’t go straight into GP surgeries without a further three year training course. Many more doctors in the immediate future is impossible. Where are they coming from? Like the 6000 more teachers, they’re coming from cloud cuckoo land. An improved offer to the doctors is crucial but it won’t solve the doctor shortage.

There are many and various ways to improve GP services without recruiting doctors.

Iam64

I don’t mind my pension being hit to improve the nhs

Trouble is, you have no say in what your taxes are used for. The extra tax you pay might be used to pay the additional 300 planning officers for instance.