Who should lead the Tories now?

That’s pretty damning growstuff.

According to Sky News the two favoured ladies have entered into a war of words tonight.

news.sky.com/story/tory-leadership-contenders-argue-in-public-over-nervous-breakdown-claims-13176193

I was at the hustings referred to in the letter. Badenoch was rude, arrogant and dismissive (as usual). I think she was probably quite shocked at how many votes she lost. The figures show that many former Conservative voters must have voted Labour. The area hasn't had a Conservative council for many years, so there is no longer grassroots support.

I honestly think that if Badenoch is chosen as leader that the Conservatives will be out in the wilderness for a decade at least. I can't see decent Conservative MPs even staying in the party.

Somebody said earlier I think that they would probably go through a number of incarnations before the real successor emerges, that’s probably right. I can’t honestly see it being either Badenoch or Braverman, particularly if they get involved in a turf war.

If children's squabbling hadn't become a bit boring, I'd be reaching for the popcorn.

The Conservatives who voted for Johnson and Truss have a lot to answer for. They need to move towards the middle ground and away from the right. Sunak tried his best but he wasn’t strong enough to keep the extreme right in their place.

Oo, I don’t know growstuff. I think a head to head between Braverman and Badernoch might be compulsive viewing

I’m got my popcorn at the ready!

Lovetopaint037

The Conservatives who voted for Johnson and Truss have a lot to answer for. They need to move towards the middle ground and away from the right. Sunak tried his best but he wasn’t strong enough to keep the extreme right in their place.

I wish a move to the right was realistic, to win the votes back that Reform won that can’t happen, because we will have a centre right Tory party and a far right Reform party. I’m pretty sure that party members will vote for a right wing leader, I don’t like any of the names mentioned we will see who else emerges in the next few months.

I suspect they will vote for a right wing leader too, but in doing so, they will alienate traditional Conservative voters. Maybe I'll get the popcorn after all.

The very public spat between Badenoch and Braverman is producing even bigger splits with almost as many factions as there are MPs.

I think that if a leader is chosen too soon I.E. before the Tory party decides exactly what it stands for. Any leader will be set up to fail because of the existential crises that the party finds itself in and the civil war that show no sign of abating.

I do feel for Sunak, he finds himself in a very invidious position and he must desperately need a break from it all now.

Looking at the YouGov electoral profiles survey which was released yesterday, the Conservatives held onto around half (53%) of their 2019 voters at this election. A quarter (25%) switched to Reform UK, while one in ten (10%) voted Labour and 7% for the Lib Dem’s. If they don’t appeal to the middle ground they aren’t going to get enough votes to be electable again. It’s particularly the under 50s where they have lost ground by the looks of it.

Casdon

I do feel for Sunak, he finds himself in a very invidious position and he must desperately need a break from it all now.

Looking at the YouGov electoral profiles survey which was released yesterday, the Conservatives held onto around half (53%) of their 2019 voters at this election. A quarter (25%) switched to Reform UK, while one in ten (10%) voted Labour and 7% for the Lib Dem’s. If they don’t appeal to the middle ground they aren’t going to get enough votes to be electable again. It’s particularly the under 50s where they have lost ground by the looks of it.

So if the survey is correct, it would make sense for the Conservatives to basically stay the course ideologically rather than move right or left?

But if a quarter of their voters switched to Reform, then they will probably lean more to the right. So Badenoch is their man - or woman, in this case.

My constituency -Tory for the last almost 30 years, lost to the Lib Dems, we are one of the "shires".

Yes, the Lib Dem beat the Tory where I am too. I can’t see people who voted Lib Dem voting Tory again if they moved to the right, and that is probably where a lot more of their voters will go rather than to Labour. The risk with that strategy must be that the Lib Dem’s will overtake them in seat numbers?

Yes please Casdon

Casdon

Yes, the Lib Dem beat the Tory where I am too. I can’t see people who voted Lib Dem voting Tory again if they moved to the right, and that is probably where a lot more of their voters will go rather than to Labour. The risk with that strategy must be that the Lib Dem’s will overtake them in seat numbers?

I think you are spot on there.

It's been said so many times, by so many people, in so many different ways, but - overall - we are not a left / right nation, we really do appear to want the centre ground. Thank goodness.

The problem is of course - interpretation of left and right. I've heard and read comments criticising the last Tory government for being too left-wing. Now that really does puzzle me; a government that embraces the 'small-state', free-market economy ideology (with gusto!), is left-wing?

I can only assume they mean that no-one should have been given any financial help during Lockdown; benefits should be withdrawn unless you're on your death-bed, and the state pension should be means-tested. And anyone who is unemployed for more than a couple of hours should be dragooned into litter-picking, street-cleaning, or any other menial job that remains unfilled due to the dire wages. Other than that, I really don't understand the 'left-wing' tag!

Personally I think the Tories should 'get-back' to their one nation conservatism which veered completely off course when Boris Johnson bounced into Nr 10 and continued in the wrong direction resulting ultimately in the short-lived reign of La Truss, and look where that landed millions of voters!

They really do need to steady their ship. If it were me, I'd literally go out and about and ask voters, "why didn't you vote for us" - and listen to their replies. I know 'the boats' is a hot issue, but there are other less important matters like, oh, I dunno, the collapsing NHS and associated services, the dire state of our waterways, ever-increasing utility bills that affect most of us most of the time... inconsequential matters like those! .

I spoke to an acquaintance before the election on the immigration issue. she's basically a "they're all the same" and I dont know if she voted. she was clear on one thing however, "they' should all be deported.

Liked the idea of turning back boats and "they should all be returned"

On closer discussion I realised she didnt know the difference between legal immigration/points based system and all other migration: she didnt know that it was not possible to turn the boats back, and believed that you could just load people onto a plane back to Albania without permission to enter air space and actually land, and so on.

She's an intelligent woman, but just not interested enough to read up on issues. We have a large number of people who believe what they were promised just like her.

They are not stupid, nor racist, but are being fed lies.

Wyllow, I think that you make an interesting point. Reform's rhetoric " turn back the boats" has a popular following because it sounds so simple, and simple answers to complex problems are attractive.
People who embrace this seem to think that the previous government haven't done this out of some strange need to give Rwanda money, not that this is a very difficult situation to resolve- as other countries around the world are finding.

I spoke to a Conservative voting friend yesterday and she’s more than happy to now live in a LibDem constituency. Like many Conservatives she’s in despair at the state of her party. It surely needs to return to it’s core values.

I think this issue is one of the reasons that the Conservatives are going to find it difficult to make policy and come together as a cohesive opposition in the short term.

This article from January 2024 points out the different factions including those against Rwanda and is a very accurate reflection of where we stand now. Will the conservatives seek to resurrect the Rwanda bill? If not, what instead?

Sorry,, here's the article I referred to

www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/17/rwanda-bill-who-are-the-rebels-rishi-sunak-must-win-over#:~:text=The%20group's%20leaders%2C%20Miriam%20Cates,rebelled%20in%20the%20third%20reading.

She's an intelligent woman, but just not interested enough to read up on issues. We have a large number of people who believe what they were promised just like her. They are not stupid, nor racist, but are being fed lies.

Have you any idea how patronising you are?
No, I do not think you have.

Many people aren’t interested in politics and believe lying headlines splashed across the front pages of the tabloids. Why is it patronising to point that out when it’s true.

Some of the worst lies I have seen and heard are believed by those who see themselves as the 'good guys'. Those who would profess to know a lot about politics. It might be that people have seen these 'lies' and thought nope not for me.
Biden is fine.
Men can be women.
Its beneficial to only go outside once a day during Covid.
I could keep going.

Everybody is taken in by some lies, and some don’t come to light for years because they have been so well concealed, but at least if you read widely and from a range of sources across the political spectrum, including from outside the UK you have more chance of understanding what is actually happening, and what is behind the statements people make and things parties do. We will never reach a point where the whole electorate does that though.

Why is it patronising to talk to someone who was very willing to engage and indeed started a conversation, but who isnt interested in politics enough to read different sources, re certain promises made by politicians, to give information?

“And anyone who is unemployed for more than a couple of hours should be dragooned into litter-picking, street-cleaning, or any other menial job that remains unfilled due to the dire wages.”

The above happens in Socialist Spain, Dickens, to anyone unemployed, as part of their benefit entitlement and it most definitely is seen as a service to their local community not something to be sneered at.

They’re expected to turn up on time each morning at the local depot and are issued with PPE and equipment for 3-4 hours. Some of my Spanish neighbours have done it, young and not so, and it’s not something they’re ashamed of ( nor should they be) and we chat as we pass by the same as if they were off to the shops.

I seem to remember something similar in Cuba when we were there 10 years ago.