James Timpson, newly elected prisons minister says only one third of prisoners should definitely be in prison.

Yes, I know that I'm a pedant but, with reference to the thread title, I'd just like to say that James Timpson has not been elected prisons minister.

I deplore the practice of offering ministerial jobs to non-elected people and giving them silly titles so that they can be part of government from the HoL I realise they may have valuable expertise to offer but what would be wrong with offering them paid positions as government advisers?

Jacqui Smith, James Timpson, David Cameron, etc, etc; it all looks like "seeing your mates right".

I could not disagree more Scribbles

This is as far away as possible from the "see your mates alright" practice of the last nine years of corrupt Tory government.

It is about getting expertise to help where it is needed.

James Timpson's appointment is excellent, as is the appointment of a senior KC as Attorney General.

I would like to see the House of Lords abolished, but whilst it exists,this is a good use of it. It is not the same as the absurd peerages awarded to the likes of Michelle Mone.

I applaud bringing people with real experience into government as advisors. The conditions in most of our prisons is a national disgrace, for many prisoners they are unsafe places where they are bullied and abused by fellow inmates. IMO most female prisoners are either addicts and/or have mental health issues and really should not be in prison. I'd really welcome a change of policy with the focus on keeping prison for those who really need to be there. One of my best friends (sadly no longer with us) was a very senior probation officer, had experience training PO's and wrote several books on the subject and I know she would agree with me. She thought the privatisation of the Probation Service by Chris Grayling was an absolute disaster!

If I remember rightly one of the most common factors with regard to female prisoners is a history of abuse as children.

That’s correct Galaxy, in addition to having experienced domestic abuse. My experience was the majority of women in prison had mental health problems , often linked to abuse. Shop lifting isn’t a victimless crime and the current approach where people simply walk in lift what they want and leave with no consequences is unacceptable. But many women serve short sentences for shop lifting to feed a drug habit. It’s no deterrent and I recognise it usually happens when current community punishments have failed. It’s another of those issues where a multi agency approach is needed

foxie48 thanks for your first hand positive knowledge. My career started in Probation, it was a professional dedicated service with some excellent older women as role models for us youngsters (long time ago 😌)

... and then they privatised it and paid "on results" in a useless scheme where all the "difficult cases"were basically allowed to fail (and failings were absorbed financially).

Probation staff said what would happen... And it was a mess.

Hats off to anyone who managed to stick this out. It was a deeply depressing time in my opinion.
Lots of good people left in my area.

Thankyou for the experiences of those who have firsthand knowledge of the prison system. I agree 100% with Varian and disagree 100% with Scribbles. Surely people with real expertise in the field cannot but be assets. This government will need all the help it can get after 14 years of Tory governance. I think James Timpson is an excellent choice.

We need to ask why people are in the prison in the first place and I am not talking about their crimes.

But many of those in prison have mental health issues, addiction issues, a disproportionate proportion have spent much of their lives in care, many have managed to go through the education system and remain illterate,. Discharged soldiers also form a disproprtionate proportion of those in prison - and of course many fall into more than one category.

More effective drug schemes with support and help lasting much longer than just the time they are on the programme, better help and support for children coming out of care. Many young soldiers go into the army because it gives them the structure and training that ther homes didn't. once they are out theres needs to be much more proactive support to find them homes, work and mental support. They went intonthe army for the discupline, we need to replace that when they are discharged.

Our care system is also a complete disgrace. Vulnerable children are taken away from inadequate/potentially dangerous parents and put into children's homes that are run for profit not for the benefit of the children. Foster parents are inadequately supported and often not capable of the role they have taken on. Young adults leaving care have a really tough deal and it's unsurprising that so many of them have mental health issues or end up in criminality.

M0nica

We need to ask why people are in the prison in the first place and I am not talking about their crimes.

But many of those in prison have mental health issues, addiction issues, a disproportionate proportion have spent much of their lives in care, many have managed to go through the education system and remain illterate,. Discharged soldiers also form a disproprtionate proportion of those in prison - and of course many fall into more than one category.

More effective drug schemes with support and help lasting much longer than just the time they are on the programme, better help and support for children coming out of care. Many young soldiers go into the army because it gives them the structure and training that ther homes didn't. once they are out theres needs to be much more proactive support to find them homes, work and mental support. They went intonthe army for the discupline, we need to replace that when they are discharged.

In our area our council has signed the Armed Service Covenant, my daughter has had much to do with putting this in place, and is a worthwhile organisation. Giving training packages and much more to help ex service personnel. Hopefully helping reduce the slide into despair and possibly crime.
I notice there is no one in post as Minister for Veterans Affairs in the new Gov.

Galaxy

To be honest the easiest solution would be to start with the female estate. And yes I am sure that is sexist.

I do agree with you. (Starting with the females, not that it’s sexist)

Oh yes Timpson, elected by whom. Same as Vallance, Starmers pal for longer lockdowns, neither were elected, they were handed roles, oh yes and Cameron. Much good he did, not. Still as he was an ex PM, voted for, slightly different.

If there's anybody in the whole of Parliament who knows more about prisoners than Timpson, maybe he or she should have been given the job. Whom would you suggest Freya?

We are told that there are four reasons for imprisoning an offender- punishment, deterrence, rehabilitation and protection of the public.

In my opinion the fourth reason, protection of the public, is the only valid reason to imprison someone.

The other three reasons could all be far better achieved by other means.

The appointment of James’s Timpson as Prisons Minister is inspired and gives me hope for the future.
A good decision and a good start.
Just hope this is a sign of better things to come.

Where on earth did that apostrophe come from!

varian
In my opinion the fourth reason, protection of the public, is the only valid reason to imprison someone.

I’m not disagreeing with that premise, but
protection of the public from what?

Fraud
Robbery
Destruction of property through arson
Distribution of drugs
Physical attack
Rape
Stalking
Manslaughter
Murder

Every victim of any of those (and other crimes) would like to be protected from the perpetrators.
Which crimes ought to come on the protection of the public list and what should we use instead?

If only there were enough staff in the prison service to actually walk prisoners from their cells to training! That would be a start.

Too often there's no staff to accompany offenders across the prison estate to the training rooms. Then we wonder why so many come out with no skills and still can't read even though they may have signed up for classes.

Additionally prisons only run relatively safety because inmates cooperate. Remember Strangeways

LauraNorderr

Where on earth did that apostrophe come from!

Apostrophes wander, it's the nature of the beast.

It is very easy to feel sympathy for prisoners but I don’t think I have read on here that anybody has been directly affected by the actions of a criminal. If you had you might think differently!

A few years ago I was victim of a very dangerous young man who very nearly killed me. It was thanks to the passenger in his car who gave evidence against him and a witness who saw what happened that he was sent to prison along with fines, bans etc. I suffered from PTSD for several years afterwards and am still unable to do certain things which I could do before. I had to go on medication and I missed a good couple of years of my life. I received counselling but had to bottle a lot of it up as I was caring for my Mum and I did not want to upset her as well.

While he was in prison two very young girls came forward (presumably they felt safe while he was locked away) and he was sentenced to many more years in prison and several more on licence. He had been sexually assaulting them and then raping them for several years. They were children.

Some people are just pure evil and should never be released. I saw evil in his eyes that day.

Dogooders fall over themselves helping prisoners but there is often little support for the victim. I received a personal alarm and a phone call from Victim Support that was it! I dread ever seeing him loose on the streets again and if I hear a noise in the night that’s the end of my sleep.

Prison was meant to have two parts to it. It was a punishment to have your life restricted and being made to follow rules etc, so hopefully you both learnt that what you had done was unacceptable and came to understand why and how. It was also meant to provide learning and assistance in encouraging people to understand how they came to be in prison and taught them new skills and trades so that they would be unlikely to return to prison. If you just punish and give no help in reforming someone of course you will have a revolving door situation. There are often many people who through things like moving a lot of times, or being ill or not being recognised as dyslexic etc, who have ended up in prison for things like not understanding letters or bills and not dealing with something within a set time. This is now made worse as we are now making a divided country. Those who have a phone and can use it to make connections and seek help if they need it. Those who cannot afford a phone, are second class citizens these days. If you want a doctors appointment you have to ring up at 8am. No phone means no appointment etc. As long as you think it is right to imprison someone and throw away the key and teach them nothing, dont help them to learn new skills or understanding of how they ended up in prison, you will never make any improvements. People with money have always been able to use accountants to make the best of their money in a legal way. You cannot even get an accountant of any sort to help you unless you have quite a sizeable amount of money. So we do need to really make a clear division between dangerous and cruel behaviour that warrants imprisonment and a long hard look at whether they are safe to release and the people who if you trace their actions often have been forced into difficult situations and not had anywhere to get any help.

I don't think James Timpson is a "do gooder".

He is one of the very few people who doesn't pontificate about theories, but actually does something.

I am delighted with Mr Timpson's appointment. Our prisons are a disgrace . One of my sons is a prison officer. He met a 19 year old prisoner who had spent his whole life in the care system. Prison was his 31 st placement in life. So incredibly sad.