Labour gambling with public safety

exactly Nice nanny....build more prisons. too many times weve been made aware of prisoners out on bail or released early, committing more crimes....

Overcrowding of prisons is the one under discussion.

I think they should go ahead and release some prisoners, but choose very very carefully which ones.

There is literally no choice.

As Braverman herself tweeted a few days ago, “We’ve all got to start taking responsibility for what we did. And for the things we shamefully left undone. Like not building enough prisons.”

Nicenanny3

Have you no concern or sympathy with Zara Aleena's aunt. Zara Aleena was murdered by a man let out of jail on licence for 9 days, if he had not been released she would still be alive.

Was he imprisoned originally because he was violent? Or did he only show signs of violence after he was released and met his victim? There is a great difference.

I read that it is planned that prisoners for release early (after 40% of their sentence instead of 50% as previously) will be chosen from those who are not deemed to be a danger to anyone, and that they will be monitored, possibly by tagging.

M0nica

No one isgoing to be releasing murderers, so tragicthough Zara Aleena's death was, it is irrelevant to a discussion about prison releases.

The Dutch managed to reduce their prison population by almost half by treaating the problems that got people into prison in the first place,; drug addiction, mental health problems, poor education. Their crime rate also fell.

That is what is wanted in the UK, not more prisons that just breed recidivists

Yes.

Throwing more and more people into jail without finding out WHY they offend in the first place, and why they keep on offending however many times they are caught, tried, sentenced and thrown back in, just means that with an exoanding population we have to build more prisons and employ more prison staff - all costing more money. Other countries spend money on the causes of re-offending and have far more success than we do in cutting down the number of re-offenders.

The years of austerity - reducing number of experience prison officers, probation officers, training schemes and privatisation of prisons have led to this crisis. Large numbers of people are incarcerated who are no threat to the public - Just Stop Oil protesters , women in for benefit fraud for example. I know of one man who got 3 years for a first time white collar offence banged up for 23 hours a day - his time could have been used far more productively - helping other offenders with literacy, other work in the community for example. Training schemes, education, psychiatric help and addiction therapy should be available in order to prevent further offending.

Nightingale hospitals were built at break-neck speed, therefore why can't places of incarceration, albeit as a stop-gap measure? Or am I missing something? Quite where the prison staff are going to be found, I have no idea?

dalrymple to take your analogy further the thing that kept people out of these hospitals during Covid was initially lock down and then the vaccine.

Prevention is always better than cure, or no cure, in this respect.

McSweeney was known to police as a serial offender.

Previously, he had 28 convictions for 69 offences including burglary and assault and had been released from prison on licence just nine days before the murder.

In that time, his licence had been revoked after he failed to attend any meetings with probation workers.

After Ms Aleena's murder, a damning report found a catalogue of errors in the Probation Service's handling of McSweeney, which meant he was not treated as a high-risk offender and was "free" to commit this "most heinous crime".(Sky news website)

Zara Aleena's killer mistakes by the Probation Service could have been prevented.

pably15

exactly Nice nanny....build more prisons. too many times weve been made aware of prisoners out on bail or released early, committing more crimes....

Yes pably15 precisely.

I’m curious why the continued focus on imprisonment. Several posts have referred to evidence from other Northern European countries of better outcomes with noncustodial sentences
I’m not defending bad practice in agencies. Im not suggesting violent or sex offenders avoid prison.

Interestingly there are some posters that see prison as a deterrent. It hasn't been and it won't be. Most crimes are committed because the individual does not believe that they will be caught.

The punishment for cattle rustling and poaching in the 19thC was hanging or deportation. This did not stop people doing either of those crimes.

Proper rehabilitation would be better. Even murderers could be rehabilitated - but not necessarily let out of prison.

if prison is so effective why do we need to build more prisons.

MOnica we agree, prison is ineffective in preventing re-offending. My impression is that new prisons are still needed because many of our prisons were built by the Victorians and not fit for purpose.
I often wonder if posters who don’t accept the need for good alternatives have ever been inside `strangeways aka Manchester prison, or Liverpool Walton, Wandsworth etc

New prisons for old definitely, much of the recidivism and violence in our prisons can be laid at the door of the very old and totally unsuitable and degrading buildings prisoners are kept in.

Young prisoners, I mean those between 18-30, need to be kept separately from older prisoners, with the emphasis being on education, drugs programmes and organised work placements and accommodation when they leave.

A friend's young daughter was sentenced to 6 months imprisonment for a minor crime.

She was a first offender with a previous clean-slate.

She was a danger to no-one, and the judge openly said that he was sentencing her as an "example".

She lost her job, her family had to take turns caring for her very young child, and she had to rely on welfare after release until she found another job.

And yet offenders who have committed violent crimes are sometimes given suspended sentences. Her crime did not involve violence.

The sentencing guidelines are ridiculous.

Having people out on licence doesn't work. Its a free for all for shop lifter's as it is. Prisoners should be working not sitting around, to just incarcerate without rehabilitation is ridiculous.

foxie48

Norway has the lowest level of recidivism in the world, below is an interesting research article on the approach which is basically much more about making prison as much like life outside prison as possible which a focus on rehabilitation. This wouldn't go down well with those who see prison as purely a punishment but it seems to work effectively and would be cheaper in the long run than the endless cycle of reoffending that the UK has.

digitalcommons.coastal.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1032&context=bridges

Surely the “punishment” is loss of liberty?

Even criminals are humans.

Most, definitely not all, criminals are able to be rehabilitated and then work to make repartition for their crimes.

Dickens

A friend's young daughter was sentenced to 6 months imprisonment for a minor crime.

She was a first offender with a previous clean-slate.

She was a danger to no-one, and the judge openly said that he was sentencing her as an "example".

She lost her job, her family had to take turns caring for her very young child, and she had to rely on welfare after release until she found another job.

And yet offenders who have committed violent crimes are sometimes given suspended sentences. Her crime did not involve violence.

The sentencing guidelines are ridiculous.

I agree.

Dickens post about her friend’s young daughter reminds me our family know a first time offender, aged 40, facing a prison sentence. The case was brought by Trading Standards against several people running similar businesses. None knew they were doing anything illegal - hard to believe but true. They’ve been advised to plead guilty to avoid longer prison sentences

Two points - it feel a bit reminiscent of the post office scandal. More importantly none of the defendants have previous convictions. All lost their businesses with huge impact on family life and mental health. Prison won’t protect society, they pose no threat. Surely community sentences more appropriate and cheaper for the public purse

Far too many of our prisoners are addicts, veterans, homeless, mentally unwell and care leavers! Treat the source and rehabilitate and watch for the results.

When people are in victorian prisons sometimes 3 to a cell designed for one, when prisoners on remand not yet up for trial are mixed in with the general population, when there are no educational or similar programmes, when the legal minimum of only one hour outside the cell a day is often the only option, how can we expect to turn lives around?

Cossy

Far too many of our prisoners are addicts, veterans, homeless, mentally unwell and care leavers! Treat the source and rehabilitate and watch for the results.

How?

Iam64

Dickens post about her friend’s young daughter reminds me our family know a first time offender, aged 40, facing a prison sentence. The case was brought by Trading Standards against several people running similar businesses. None knew they were doing anything illegal - hard to believe but true. They’ve been advised to plead guilty to avoid longer prison sentences

Two points - it feel a bit reminiscent of the post office scandal. More importantly none of the defendants have previous convictions. All lost their businesses with huge impact on family life and mental health. Prison won’t protect society, they pose no threat. Surely community sentences more appropriate and cheaper for the public purse

Surely community sentences more appropriate and cheaper for the public purse

Well, quite.

I'm sure ex-offenders sometimes need supporting financially when they leave prison.

My friend's daughter lost her job and, ultimately, her rental accommodation. So she certainly needed benefits when she came out. Fortunately, she had a supportive family and sooner than expected found a reasonable job and further accommodation.

But what an upheaval, and at what cost to the public purse - just to make an example of her.

And her young son was old enough to wonder what had happened to mummy - and why she couldn't come home.

The whole thing was ridiculous, a suspended sentence, a fine and community-service would have been sufficient.

In the end they had to let her out early - there was no suitable accommodation for a 'light' offender at the time, and they'd banged her up in a cell with a much older woman, a drug-addict. Though the woman was in fact very kind to her.

Yet sometimes there is no "example" made of young males who assault and attack other males - and women. They attract a suspended sentence.