Social Care Brushed Aside Again

ronib

Labour has had a long time to get to grips with social care and the NHS waiting lists etc. It was not exactly a State secret. Delaying tactics as yet another report being commissioned by Lord Darzi…. Very disappointing ? I thought the NHS waiting lists were urgent, extremely urgent even?

In 2019 the Conservative manifesto committed to a "cross-party consensus" to reform adult social care.

These reforms were to be implemented in October 2023 - but in 2022 - they announced a two-year delay. It didn't appear the necessary work to implement the scheme in even 2025 gained any traction.

... but yes, Labour should have got it "sorted" by the end of the week.

I think that considering the previous delays, Labour can be allowed a little more time to decide where the funding is going to come from.

I’ve been a care worker ( within a care home) for quite a while now and am paid more than the minimum wage.Care homes pay varies. We have a few dementia patients or customers as we are supposed to call them, very sad cases and difficult to treat at times.Others are like anyone else, with all the many characteristics you would expect and complex needs.You come to be very attached to some of them.
Council run care homes will pay less than private care homes usually.
Social care really needs to be addressed it’s been kicked into the long grass by successive governments.

Dickens where did I say “Labour should have got it sorted by the end of the week”? Thanks for detailing the exact issues. It’s bad enough to know that the whole problem of social care has been kicked into the long grass. But Labour can’t now spend the next few years dribbling the ball around. Labour is fully aware of the issues.

ronib

Dickens where did I say “Labour should have got it sorted by the end of the week”? Thanks for detailing the exact issues. It’s bad enough to know that the whole problem of social care has been kicked into the long grass. But Labour can’t now spend the next few years dribbling the ball around. Labour is fully aware of the issues.

But Labour can’t now spend the next few years dribbling the ball around.

I quite agree.

But why not judge after the "next few years" rather than assume, as you appear to, that that is what they are going to do?

Dickens my friend can’t wait for the next few years - and she’s facing overwhelming challenges and financial hardship now. It’s appalling that in a list of 40 bills put together by Labour nothing at all was done about social care.

Rome was not built in a day ronib. Your ire should be turned on the last government who ran social care into the ground, along with multiple other services. It’s completely irrational to expect Labour to prioritise everything in the first year when they have a mountain to climb. Ask yourself does 14 years or two weeks have more impact on the service that is delivered today?

ronib

Dickens my friend can’t wait for the next few years - and she’s facing overwhelming challenges and financial hardship now. It’s appalling that in a list of 40 bills put together by Labour nothing at all was done about social care.

I understand your feelings on the issues with your friend, I really do.

Your friend has probably been in a dire situation for some considerable time. Who kicked social care into the long grass though over the last 14 years?

Casdon is right though, Labour cannot prioritise everything in one go. Your friend's suffering is not the result of Labour excluding a bill.

Dickens Labour doesn’t care about my friend. The budget for net zero takes precedence. I doubt that the NHS and social care will improve any time soon.

As I recall from discussing this with you previously, you said that your friend doesn’t want to have to sell her house to pay for the social care she needs ronib? She needs to make hard choices. Did she expect that Labour would promise immediate free social care for home owners? It’s not going to happen, there is no money to do that, when the new government have inherited the worst economy since 1962. That doesn’t mean social care is not being looked at in detail, but you have to be realistic.

Oreo

I’ve been a care worker ( within a care home) for quite a while now and am paid more than the minimum wage.Care homes pay varies. We have a few dementia patients or customers as we are supposed to call them, very sad cases and difficult to treat at times.Others are like anyone else, with all the many characteristics you would expect and complex needs.You come to be very attached to some of them.
Council run care homes will pay less than private care homes usually.
Social care really needs to be addressed it’s been kicked into the long grass by successive governments.

I agree, social care has also been "kicked into the long grass" by people who want (understandably) the best of care for their elderly relatives but don't want to pay increased council tax in order that people like yourself can earn a decent salary.

Casdon I don’t know what my friend wants to do and I don’t think she knows either. She’s facing a truly colossal care bill due to physical deterioration and risk of falling. Using a private agency would cost in the region of £140k per year and that is without the cost of running a home and food.
The new government, having inherited the worst economy since 1962, has a very particular set of priorities which are going to cost us very heavily.

The point I’m making ronib is that nothing has changed for your friend, she had this dilemma two weeks ago, before the government changed, and she has it now. No government was going to give her what she wants - in two weeks, or in two months, or in two years and why should it? She is a home owner, she will have to pay until her money runs out, the same as everybody else does.
It is irrelevant what you think about the government’s green agenda in the context of your friend’s social care needs now.

Casdon don’t you mean that no British government will help my friend? Other countries would.

ronib

Casdon don’t you mean that no British government will help my friend? Other countries would.

So who do you think is going to pay your friend £140k a year? the government doesn't have any money - it reallocates money from people paying taxes (ie all of us).

Scandinavian countries have free social care ronib, I’m not aware of any other countries that do? I can imagine the outcry from Tory voters if the government said that the UK was moving to a Scandinavian model. You have said you are a small state believer on numerous occasions, I don’t understand why you would support free social care for people who can afford to pay?

growstuff I would ask how private care agencies are allowed to charge end users such exorbitant rates. Then I would say that it’s time to implement some kind of insurance plan/scheme to cover costs for older people. Germany has such a system.

Casdon people can afford to pay up to a point and they do. My friend now has complex needs and her savings are low having paid for quite some time.
Follow the German model as we’re too poor to go the Scandinavian route. Simple.

Your friend would not be eligible for social care in Germany unless she had made the mandatory insurance contribution throughout her working life, which is currently 3.4% - 4% of annual salary, either provided by statutory health insurance or private health insurance. There is no option not to pay, so effectively that is a large additional tax on your income. I’m surprised that you would argue in favour of an additional mandatory tax. Added to which, the service has the same issues as it does in the UK, as discussed above.

Casdon let’s discuss the figures. When assessed as needing 4 care visits a day to effect transfer, 7 days a week using 2 carers the State will end up paying. Depending on how many years a person survives, the care bill might not be covered by value in the house so total costs won’t be recouped on death by the State/taxpayer. People are living to 100.

Interesting to note that the very expensive private healthcare company locally was always able to provide a care worker with very little notice. Social services refuse to pay at this level as savings are all gone so my friend is now fully reliant on the State.

ronib, you’ve lost me? Are you suggesting that the British public would rather pay care insurance as they do in Germany than pay if they need care and have funds? The option is open already for people to take out private insurance here if they wish to.

Casdon

One family’s experience is not the measure of the effectiveness of a system, it’s just one family’s experience ronib. The best care system for older people in the world according to expert analysis is in Norway. Generally, the Scandinavian countries are the most inclusive and have the most satisfied populations.

It’s worth noting, though, that in Sweden (according to my Swedish friend) virtually everyone pays relatively small charges for

a) visits to GP and A&E
b) prescriptions - even her over 90 dad did
c) and something towards the ‘board’ element of hospital stays.

But I can imagine the howls of outrage if any such measures were ever suggested here.

ronib

A friend who lives in Germany wanted to know when a social care insurance scheme would be launched in the Uk. Apparently this scheme works very well in Germany and presumably care workers are paid a living wage and old people are well cared for without bankruptcy looming. Interesting observation… dream on.

Yes I've quoted this before. Family pay an extra tax for social care, as well as paying into health insurance, which are all kept separate from general taxation. By the way the German minimum wage is €12.41 full time gives you €2,085 per month, but rents are as high if not higher than here, and family assure me food costs are also higher, as is fuel. They have the same problems with health care recriutment as do we, in fact its worldwide.

I can also imagine the howls of outrage if such measures were to be introduced here Witzend.
My daughter is a GP in New Zealand. Everyone, including retired people, have to pay a charge for a GP visit there. Depending on which GP Practice it is, the charge is between twenty five dollars and one hundred dollars, that’s between £12.50 and £100 for a GP visit. Most are around fifty dollars, that’s £25. Only children are exempt from charges.

I’ve long thought there should be a small charge for a GP consultation here, with only children being the exceptions.

I think they have free social care in Scotland.

I wouldn't howl with outrage. When the NHS was set up it was thought that there would be a gradual reduction in the care that people needed because we would become a healthier nation. We didn't and our demands on the NHS increase all the time. I'd be happy to pay towards my care as long as no one is denied care on the basis of their ability to pay, so means testing is perfectly OK with me. I'd also pay for prescriptions, currently I get three a month, basically which is over £250 a year if I paid each month, a yearly scrip is £114.50. I'm definitely not suggesting a two tier system just one that asks those of us who can afford to pay more, to do so.

With regard to social care, again I'm happy to pay and if I die leaving a bit of cash for my children then that's money they haven't had to work for!