Rachel Reeves has announced that winter fuel payments will only be paid to those on Pension Credit.nsion Credit

I would if I could get to a bus stop easily and the bus took me where I wanted to go to.

Yes, I appreciate that getting around on public transport is a problem for many for various reasons, Callistemon. But there are others, and we personally know quite a few, who don’t use the passes even though they have a stop at the end of the road that takes them to just the same place as their car does. And pride themselves on not having been on a bus since they were 16.

We don’t see public transport as an asset in the way that many of our European neighbours do. And don’t prioritise it, despite our polluted cities and overcrowded roads.

If we don’t use public transport when we can, we will lose it. As many have already. And sadly, the same probably applies to the senior bus pass. The people losing out, again, will be the poorest.

biglouis

*Why not save the costs and give more money to those pensioners on UC and those who are housebound and cannot make use of the bus pass*

UC is only available to those of working age.

I meant Pension Credit. Thanks for pointing that out.

Should bus passes be inter-country, UK based? The time we might use ours would be on holiday in England but we can't because they are Welsh.

It’d be good if they were, Callistemon. We were pleased to find we could use ours on the Isle of Wight. Our Welsh friends couldn’t.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to divert the thread. I’ll get off now. Might even see if our bus to town is running today.

J52

rosie1959

I find it odd that the supposedly caring Labour party are hitting pensioners who are just over the limit for benefits. They may be just managing but this kick on the teeth will not help.

So what would be your answer?

Give it to all pensioners even if they don’t need it? Very costly.
Means test it? Again costly to administer
Raise the UC credit bar? Then the next layer of missing out would complain.
Raise the SP? Then those pushed into tax would complain.
Of course they could abolish paying tax for Pensioners.
Any other suggestions?

Raise taxes for higher earners, Corporation taxes, dont send millions to the French for doing sweet sod all, billions to Africa middle East, won't do sod all.
Reeves obviously did no good as shadow Chancellor, aren't they supposed to take note of these deficits before hand, and put them in their manifesto as to what they will do. about it, but oh no, even less would have voted for them than did.
The economy was picking up before your shower came in, reducing the spending power of pensioners to help heat their homes or for food is downright despicable. Glad it's not on my conscience.

We're going somewhere which will take us 35 minutes by car but 2 hours 40 minutes plus two long walks by bus.

Maggiemaybe

Sorry, I didn’t mean to divert the thread. I’ll get off now. Might even see if our bus to town is running today.

Sorry, back to topics!

Raise taxes for higher earners

That's rather a generalisation.

Some 'higher earners' are hardly earning vast sums and may well have families, mortgages and are just about managing.

If you mean wealthy tax evaders, then yes.

Freya5
The economy was picking up before your shower came in, reducing the spending power of pensioners to help heat their homes or for food is downright despicable.

Excuse me! How do you know who I voted for?
Your peddling mis information!

Sycamore123

I should be careful in speaking for everyone, many pensioners are just outside the Pension Credit limit who are far from ‘comfortably off’, I doubt they will be very happy!!

Not everyone on GN is comfortably off MOnica, as you have seen from the comments. It is people like HattieTopper who will struggle.

The “clearing up the Tory mess” argument isn’t cutting as much ice as was hoped. That’s the crux of it.

I dislike the whole principle of governments introducing mean measures early on in the hope that voters will have forgotten in 5 years time. And this is a mean measure.

Cost of living increases have meant that the state pension doesn’t go as far as it did 5 years ago so more people are dependent on these extra payments, especially people living alone who are predominately women.

No reason to think that RR doesn’t care. She’s in a tight place but IMO was ill-advised to target the old so blatantly. Maybe withholding until age 80 would have been more acceptable if she was determined to do it.

Really surprised that the first thing the government went for is the winter fuel allowance. This is an important benefit for people on a low income. The 'I'm alright jack' stance is not particularly helpful. Especially with the fuel increases looming. This is going to be a difficult winter for many elderly people.

LizzieDrip

I have no problem with RR move to scrap the WFA, except for those on pension credit etc. Whilst I understand it will be unpopular with many, it is very unfair that people get it who really don’t need it.

In her autumn budget, I hope she tackles those with obscene wealth!

I think it is always very unfair to take from those who've saved (whether into a pension or into a bank) to give to those who haven't. People not on Pension Credit have usually paid both enough NI to get a full pension and into an occupational pension on top. Why should they then be told they 'don't really need' extra money, but those who haven't made provision will get it anyway?

Who can say what other people 'need'. That only works if there is a baseline standard of living and as soon as someone reaches it, regardless of any sacrifices they've made to do so they are deemed 'not really to need' anything extra.

I don't understand this attitude at all, whether it is applied to pensioners, children, parents or anyone. Means-testing strips people of incentives, dreams and hopes for a life above a baseline decided on by others.

I believe in universal benefits, payable to those who pay into the system (unless there is a reason why they are unable to). There should be a separate system for those who choose not to pay in, and that should be means tested (eg on property, savings and family income), as a civilised country can't have people unable to eat and people will always fall through the net.

Otherwise, child benefits, pensions etc should be paid to all contributors, and should not be cut or stopped if people make further provision for themselves to drag them down to the baseline level. Unemployment benefits should also be paid on an insurance basis - if you've paid in you get back (subject to proof of job seeking) and if you haven't then benefits should be means tested.

I have seen comments saying that people who have bought their homes should get no WFA but renters should. Why? Of course I realise that renters have more calls on their incomes, and I would support increases in housing benefits if a way could be found that didn't simply divert taxes to pay landlords' mortgages and pensions, but as the point of paying off a house when you are in work is that you can live in it free when the mortgage ends, why should people who have done so be penalised?

As far as the government is concerned, I agree that this is a baffling move, but that it should be seen in the context of the Autumn budget when we've seen that. I don't think that the government is 'coming for pensioners', but it needs to pay to save the NHS, get the extra teachers it has promised and do something about housing. We were told that difficult decisions would have to be made to rectify 14 years of corruption and cuts, and I guess this was one of them.

It might have been more positively received if it had been framed as cutting the allowance across the board, but simultaneously increasing Pension Credit. That would have the same impact, but would seem fairer to those who have paid into the system. Also, Pension Credit will be phased out when the new pension takes over, so whichever way it's described it will be a short-term measure anyway.

Good post Doodledog, as usual.

I really don’t like this “I’m alright Jack” attitude that some here seem to have because they are comfortably off and so don’t mind losing it.Many are not comfortably off, but fall just above any thresholds for receiving benefits of any kind, so will find themselves really struggling. Then there are the people who, for whatever reason (pride, embarrassment, fear, etc), won’t apply even when entitled to.
I think it is Martin Lewis who has suggested that a fairer way would be to look at which council tax band you fall into and those within the lower bands be eligible.
We are desperately in the red, that’s true, but oh, how much waste there is - that needs tackling, but it seems that softer targets are easier. How often do we read of big debts being written off, or fraud investigations coming to naught, whereas if Jo or Josephine Bloggs got into debt they’d be chased hard.
Money can amazingly be raised to send abroad, though.

Richard Murphy has your backs

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/07/30/frozen-grannies-wont-forgive-reeves/

MaizieD

Richard Murphy has your backs

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/07/30/frozen-grannies-wont-forgive-reeves/

Blimey maizie hardly a laser focused economic assessment.

He is voicing an opinion just like us.

We may or may not agree with his assessment but to say that “he has our backs” doesn’t really cut the mustard!

You are welcome, Blinko.

Some more context.

In 2023/23, 126 million was paid out in £10 Christmas Bonuses. It’s a contributory benefit which is paid from NIC that that is collected into and then paid out of the National Insurance Fund (NIF). Winter Fuel Allowance is not a contributory benefit so doesn’t come out of the NIF.

MoneySavingExpert, Martin Lewis says there are around 800,000 people eligible for pension credit who aren’t getting it and urges people to claim, particularly as it’s a gateway to other benefits, for example, help with dentistry costs and glasses, council tax, broadband costs.

ONS says: At August 2023, there were 1.4 million people receiving Pension Credit representing a total of 1.6 million beneficiaries including partners.

On that basis, around a third of people eligible for Pension Credit and not claiming it.

Guaranteed Pension Credit will top up weekly income to £218.15 if you’re single or £332.95 if you’re married or in a civil partnership. If you reached State Pension Age before 6 April 2016, Savings Credit can add another £17.01 a week for a single person, £19.04 for couples.

In her speech yesterday, Reeves said:

I will work with my right honorouble friend the Work and Pensions Secretary to maximise the take-up of pension credit by bringing forward the administration of housing benefit and pension credit, repeatedly pushed back by the previous Government, and by working with older people’s charities and local authorities to raise awareness of pension credit and help identify households not claiming it.

The government Pension Credit calculator is easy to use:

pensioncreditcalculator.dwp.gov.uk/pension-credit-calculator-form.php?stage=1

There has to be a cut off point somewhere. As, I said, WFA isn’t a contributory benefit funded out of NIC. It has never made sense to pay a non-contributory benefit to everyone over pension age irrespective of income, from the poorest to billionaires.

For a single person born before 6 April 2016, getting guaranteed credit and savings credit, they will have a weekly income of £235.16 which is £12,228 per year. By comparision, someone working 40 hours a week at minimum wage will take home £12,732 after tax and NIC, so a difference of only £500 or £10 a week. Out of this, they will have to pay costs of living that a retired person may no longer have.

On the other hand, an older person is likely to be home more, may feel the cold more and so have higher heating costs.

What I’d really like to see now is for Ofgem to speed up its review of energy standing charges which would help those trying to, needing to economise. Energy standing charges make up around £300 of most people's yearly bills - what Martin Lewis calls a morally hazardous energy poll tax.

Ofgem has asked bill payers, suppliers, charities and consumer groups for their views on how an alternative system could work.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2023/11/energy-standing-charges-ofgem-review/

IMO, I think Reeves should have held off for another year to enable other systems to catch up:

• to make sure that those people, mostly women, whose pensions were being underpaid, were now being paid the correct amount c/f the 1.8 billion contingency in the NIF for this.

• allow other agencies time to do the work necessary to help those 800,000 people eligible for pension credit claim what they are entitled to.

* await the result of the Ofgem review on energy standing charges.

merion I take your point “held off for another year” but we. Don’t know her plans do we?

I suspect she is keen to get the most unpalatable choices on the table asap in order to get them away very early in this parliament.

What she has planned for the future with be a bit clearer in the autumn.

What we are talking about is the past.

What is wrong or smug about saying we give our WPA to charity each year?
I am not well off or rich but I can afford to heat my home for my own needs and wouldn’t know how to “give it back”.
What would happen to it then?
For many years, I have been getting this benefit for a long time as I am 87, I have given it ,equally , to Crisis at Christmas and the Salvation Army.
Am I supposed to feel guilty about this?

annsixty

What is wrong or smug about saying we give our WPA to charity each year?
I am not well off or rich but I can afford to heat my home for my own needs and wouldn’t know how to “give it back”.
What would happen to it then?
For many years, I have been getting this benefit for a long time as I am 87, I have given it ,equally , to Crisis at Christmas and the Salvation Army.
Am I supposed to feel guilty about this?

No of course not. Whoever says you are needs to give their head a Wobble.

You certainly owe no one an explanation.

Maybe a rude gesture but no more than that😄

Ladyleftfieldlover

I honestly think Rachel Reeves is genuinely very annoyed at the state of the country’s finances. I don’t think you can say that Labour don’t like pensioners! I’m sorry that some GNs will suffer because of the decision on fuel allowance being limited to those on various benefits. Sadly there has to be a line drawn and there will always be people caught just in the wrong place. Don’t despise Labour yet.

Why not. Shadow Chancellor, she would have had access to most of documents pertaining to finances. This is political more than anything.

They appear to have sorted the doctor’s strike. That is a relief.also promising increased nhs pay. Anger should be focussed on Hunt and the last useless lying government including Truss. They knew about the black hole and they knew it would force Labour to make some hard decisions.

J52

Freya5
The economy was picking up before your shower came in, reducing the spending power of pensioners to help heat their homes or for food is downright despicable.

Excuse me! How do you know who I voted for?
Your peddling mis information!

Im not peddling anything. Just your inference as you wrote.
Apologies for that.