Riots in Southport

tickingbird

JaneJudge

Casdon is saying there is resurgence in the popularity of the EDL and similar organisations. The protest (can it even be called a protest) at the cenotaph, the anti Palestine stuff was all organised by the EDL and TR too

As with everything else it all depends on where you source your information. Approximately 30 minutes ago I listened to an expert on integration speaking about this and he said he understands the EDL doesn’t have a website and as far he knows it doesn’t really exist as an organisation. That’s not to say these rioters aren’t despicable and I will not tolerate being accused of supporting them.

People need to wake up to lazy, inaccurate reporting and then come on here repeating it.

Or rather, people need to source their information from a variety of sites across the political spectrum rather than a few which reinforce their beliefs. A lot of us do that already. I’m not accusing you of anything other than burying your head in the sand about this particular issue tickingbird.

Just a reminder of your statement:

‘Growstuff the EDL has been in decline for years and is no longer anything to do with Tommy Robinson (i have no idea if he fronts another group)I don’t even know if the BNP exist anymore.Thugs are thugs regardless of their ethnicity and as for far right don’t make me laugh. Do you seriously believe those hooligans causing trouble last night have a clue about politics? No different to labelling the Leeds rioters as far left.’

Surely a case by case question, not sure what you mean WWM.

Simple question.

Why riot?

Another feature of the very far right groups differentiating them from mainstream politics is that they have been in the sights of counterterrorist authorities over the years.
Tommy Robinson is:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/28/tommy-robinson-says-he-has-been-arrested-under-terrorism-act

It's important to distinguish between the very different right wing views just as it is between left wing. I agree it's wise not to bandy terms about but be more precise.

A major difference is that the extreme far right groups like the EDL operate outside our normal democratic processes. They don't put people up for elections. But they are not just thugs, although many are thugs. There is an ideology behind it, again, see Hope not Hate.

tickingbird anyone who has accused you of supporting the rioters is way out of order. You are a valued member of GN. And have been particularly helpful with your comments about the Gaza situation.

I saw there were further riots last night, some in London and some in other places. I hope they left Southport alone at least.

nanna8 you are right to pick up on the term far right. It is quite often bandied about on here and used to describe anything or anyone who is right of centre. These rioters are thugs, never mind far right. Just vile thugs.

JaneJudge

Casdon is saying there is resurgence in the popularity of the EDL and similar organisations. The protest (can it even be called a protest) at the cenotaph, the anti Palestine stuff was all organised by the EDL and TR too

As with everything else it all depends on where you source your information. Approximately 30 minutes ago I listened to an expert on integration speaking about this and he said he understands the EDL doesn’t have a website and as far he knows it doesn’t really exist as an organisation. That’s not to say these rioters aren’t despicable and I will not tolerate being accused of supporting them.

People need to wake up to lazy, inaccurate reporting and then come on here repeating it.

(Correction, Hope not hate isn't an X sites)

nanna8

Just to clarify- anyone who is against people arriving in the UK by boats with the intention of staying and by passing normal immigration channels is ‘far right’? Seems a bit strange to me. Anyone who is anti the Palestinians and Hamas is ‘far right’?
These labels don’t seem helpful at all, more hateful than helpful.

No, they aren't. The politics of those are far wider and complex.

This thread has focused on the Southport situation, and the involvement of extreme right groups in an anti-muslim/anti-police riot.

Labelling inappropriately I agree is unhelpful.

However these far right groups have existed in the UK in different shapes and forms since the 1930's and the Southport manifestation of them, how they organise, how they behave, what their targets are, are very real.

The Hope not Hate website offers real insight into these groups and their intentions. Their intention is not just anti-Islam, it is to disrupt law and order when they feel it isnt going their way hence attacks directly on the police.

(btw I dont belong to x or any similar SM/Facebook group if I get information. It only needs a few key words in a search engine for relevant X pages to come up, like the Hope not Hate website)

There were questions in the house this week, when Reform supporters no doubt expected their leader to be in the forefront of the debate -

Not a bit of it - he was - as usual - nowhere to be seen.

Instead he is going full on Trump and stirring on social media

“A former counter-terrorism police chief has accused Nigel Farage of helping incite violence that broke out in Southport after the killing of three children in a knife attack this week.
Farage drew criticism from across the political spectrum for remarks he made in a video on Tuesday in which he questioned “whether the truth is being withheld from us” after the attack on Monday.
Neil Basu – a former senior Scotland Yard officer who was in charge of counter-terrorism from 2018 to 2021 – said there were “real world consequences” when public figures failed to “keep their mouth shut”.
“Nigel Farage is giving the EDL [English Defence League] succour, undermining the police, creating conspiracy theories, and giving a false basis for the attacks on the police,” he said, referring to the far-right, Islamophobic group whose supporters are believed to have been involved in the rioting in Southport.
“Has Nigel Farage condemned the violence? Has he condemned the EDL? Fomenting discord in society is what these people seem to exist for,” Basu added.

Farage was also described on Wednesday as “nothing better than a Tommy Robinson in a suit” by Brendan Cox, the campaigner and husband of the murdered Labour MP, Jo Cox. Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, founded the EDL in 2009.

There was a rapid spread online of misinformation after the attack, with inflammatory far-right narratives rife on the comment threads under posts by Farage and another Reform MP, Rupert Lowe, on their official Facebook pages.

Under posts by Farage and Lowe, who echoed Farage by saying there was “more to this than we’re being told”, comments ranged from predictions of a coming race war, sharing of misinformation, antisemitic tropes and claims of a cover-up.
“This is clearly not a case of accidental mischaracterisation.

This is Reform and Farage in particular actively spreading disinformation and actively using insinuation to incite anxiety, concern and inflame emotions,” Cox said.

Farage was described as “utterly shameful” by the Tory peer Lord Barwell, the former MP who served as Theresa May’s Downing Street chief of staff.
He said: “He is an MP. If he has questions, he could have asked them in the House of Commons yesterday – but he wasn’t there. Instead he prefers to encourage those spreading misinformation on here [social media]. Utterly shameful.”

Casdon is saying there is resurgence in the popularity of the EDL and similar organisations. The protest (can it even be called a protest) at the cenotaph, the anti Palestine stuff was all organised by the EDL and TR too

I think you’re burying your head in the sand tickingbird. It wasn’t a day trip, it was an organised event. The EDF communicates to its members, and they turn up from all over the country to join in. It may have declined in the 2010s, but there’s a definite resurgence.
Casdon. Please explain this comment.

Wyllow3

These are some of the images shared encouraging people to turn up for the Southport riot.
Information on this and a lot more from the website of "Hope not Hate"

my god

tickingbird

Caasdon
*tickingbird I think this explains quite clearly how the misinformation led to the far right gathering of rioters, it is a lot more organised than you’d think. The power of social media.^

I don’t understand why you felt the need to point this out to me. I don’t do X, TikTok or any other sm. Here and very occasionally Facebook.

Don’t start running with the fake comment about me supporting the EDL. It’s about time grown up discussion was allowed without certain individuals making up nonsense because they have nothing left to put on the table.

I pointed it out to you specifically in light of our previous conversation on this thread tickingbird. You don’t need to subscribe to these sites, I don’t either, to put together an understanding of how organised the operation actually is.

There are 1,000’s of disenfranchised people in the U.K.

Perhaps where they live there is a large visible immigrant population.

Perhaps they have accommodation in their local vicinity where migrants are waiting for their asylum applications to be processed.

Perhaps they have witnessed females being harassed by migrants (like the footage from Dublin were a migrant man exposed himself to a young Irish female, and continued to hurl abuse at her until a passer-by intervened)

Could be all of the above or none of the above, but it is too easy to dismiss this entire cohort as far right thugs. What is evident is that they are extremely angry with the establishment/Government at what they see as an erosion of British Values (whatever they are?)

To do so will just ensure that each time there is an atrocity similar to Southport where the person responsible has a non white face we will see riots and organised thuggery.

I am not supporting them, never have never will, but to continually dismiss them and their concerns is just compounding their frustration and will in all probability lead to further and more violent situations.

Caasdon
*tickingbird I think this explains quite clearly how the misinformation led to the far right gathering of rioters, it is a lot more organised than you’d think. The power of social media.^

I don’t understand why you felt the need to point this out to me. I don’t do X, TikTok or any other sm. Here and very occasionally Facebook.

Don’t start running with the fake comment about me supporting the EDL. It’s about time grown up discussion was allowed without certain individuals making up nonsense because they have nothing left to put on the table.

Mt61

Grow stuff you are just speculating, TR hasn’t been a member of EDL Since 2013, but how do you know it was him organising it, are you in cahoots with him personally? No? So just second guessing? You want to get your facts right

Not second guessing, this was reported in the mainstream media.

NannyC1

46GrannyGravy13
Is The photo that was all over social media the same one that showed someone being arrested and was named. If so then that is a lie because that was put up by Andrew Tate and it was from last year! and had nothing to do with Southport or the Muslim community. Xx

No it has nothing to do with Andrew Tate

Has the time come for security guards to be positioned outside schools and childrens events?
I think schools are probably as safe as they can be - fences, gates, access control, buzzers, alarms, cctv, etc.
Holiday clubs and activity centres may well have to reconsider this aspect, but how do you equip every church hall, every community centre, every dance studio in the country? I think a lot will depend on how parents react to this, and what demands they will now make when leaving their children.

hopenothate.org.uk/2024/07/31/the-far-right-and-the-southport-riot-what-we-know-so-far/
I was disgusted by the images posted above so had a look at the Hope Not Hate website for more information. There is a lot of factual information there if anyone wants to check who is behind the rioting and why it is fairly easy to whip up a crowd fuelled with hatred that originates from completely false information.

I am so saddened by this tragedy and fearful of the future. Has the time come for security guards to be positioned outside schools and childrens events? I wonder where this 17 year old got hold of a hunting knife?
Watching the videos of the riots in Southport and in London I think the police need more power to dissipate the trouble makers. I would support the use of water cannons.

Just to clarify- anyone who is against people arriving in the UK by boats with the intention of staying and by passing normal immigration channels is ‘far right’? Seems a bit strange to me. Anyone who is anti the Palestinians and Hamas is ‘far right’?
These labels don’t seem helpful at all, more hateful than helpful.

46GrannyGravy13
Is The photo that was all over social media the same one that showed someone being arrested and was named. If so then that is a lie because that was put up by Andrew Tate and it was from last year! and had nothing to do with Southport or the Muslim community. Xx

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202408/medium-647364-tiktok-screengrab-copy.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202408/medium-754015-southport-4-copy.jpg

These are some of the images shared encouraging people to turn up for the Southport riot.
Information on this and a lot more from the website of "Hope not Hate"