The right to peaceful protest in the UK

I would say undermining safeguarding processes and those scenes did that are a threat across the country.
If you are talking about riots the far right in southport worry me, in terms of terrorist incidents such as attacks on concerts, etc they dont worry me at all.

JaneJudge

EDL don't represent the white working classes

Of course not - they merely claim they do.

Galaxy

I would say undermining safeguarding processes and those scenes did that are a threat across the country.
If you are talking about riots the far right in southport worry me, in terms of terrorist incidents such as attacks on concerts, etc they dont worry me at all.

I m not sure what you are saying - sorry to be dim.

I don't think one wrongful arrest "proves" anything except the police made one wrongful arrest.

But yes, the police need to be seen as even handed as far a reasonably possible..

However, the response to a preplanned and known event is likely to be different to one that suddenly happens simply in terms of available resources.

Those of us who are interested in politics, poor on GN N & P threads probably have an overall understanding of politics and life outside of our own bubbles of friends and family.

There are100’s of 1,000’s of people in the U.K. that get their news from instagram, the water cooler, their mates and the occasional mainstream news clip.

They see the police in a different way, they see them leaving what they perceive as others alone (Rotherham has left its mark) and going hard on their peers (predominantly white, male , not exclusively though)

Whether or not this is a true representation is another discussion all together, but we have to realise that this is what they see and how they feel.

It’s these feelings that need to be addressed and grass roots level or I can see the EDL, BNP or whatever name they are using nowadays having recruits rushing to join.

Surely we all want to see peace on our streets…

Like I posted upthread, I do not condone violence, I do not agree with violent protests/riots.

I am jut trying to understand why and how these folks feel like they do.

Throwing insults along with labelling will not help this situation, all probability it will escalate and inflame it.

Yes gg13 I agree about feeling and emotion. Which is often how people vote.. you can see it on this forum.

The only way is to constantly plug away at the misinformation - look at what we have witnessed recently and how easily it is believed without critical thinking. Being as open as possible about decisions etc. also helps I think.

My perception is that Tommy Robinson and his cohorts, who definitely constitute the "far right" will use any old excuse to kick off, as witnessed in Southport. Their ilk has been more visible since Labour took up office, so I'm wondering if that's some overt flexing their muscles signal.

I think a problem these days is that those who are positioned left of centre don't draw a distinction between the right and the "far right" the latter who are undoubtedly comprised of thugs, although that element is not exclusive to their demographic they are also present on the far left too.

There is a perception that the Police are not always as even handed as they should be. The behaviour by the far right agitators at Southport was without a doubt disgraceful and without any evidence, or false hearsay, misdirected their aggression towards the Muslim population who had nothing to do with the atrocity. Undoubtedly the police had a difficult job there in reigning in the thuggery that was going on. There is undoubtedly a disparity in how the police per se have handled different protests, disgracefully heavy handed in the peaceful protest by women in the aftermath of the shocking Sarah Everard case, was that because the perpetrator was one of their own?

Criticism has been drawn over their light policing of the pro Gaza marches for example, also the fact that the police are at times visibly joining in with Pride marches, when there is a lack of their presence on the streets. Combined with historical obfuscation surrounding crimes that were suppressed, Rotherham grooming for example, there is a palpable distrust in their lack of even- handedness. When this is picked up it does at times seem that such critics will be deemed as if they are from the "far right" because there are "some" who frame any opinion that descents from their overall view as thus, which imo is fuelling the flames of division.

GrannyGravy13

Those of us who are interested in politics, poor on GN N & P threads probably have an overall understanding of politics and life outside of our own bubbles of friends and family.

There are100’s of 1,000’s of people in the U.K. that get their news from instagram, the water cooler, their mates and the occasional mainstream news clip.

They see the police in a different way, they see them leaving what they perceive as others alone (Rotherham has left its mark) and going hard on their peers (predominantly white, male , not exclusively though)

Whether or not this is a true representation is another discussion all together, but we have to realise that this is what they see and how they feel.

It’s these feelings that need to be addressed and grass roots level or I can see the EDL, BNP or whatever name they are using nowadays having recruits rushing to join.

Surely we all want to see peace on our streets…

I absolutely agree. Sadly, to quote Trump, “fake news” has a lot to answer for!

I think the police did get it entirely wrong at the Sarah Everard vigil, but I also believe that they dealt with the Southport “riots” well and don’t think they can be compared to what happened in Southend.

I found this quite illuminating regarding the Leeds riot, how it was triggered and the aftermath. I do think the situations were quite different now I understand a bit more about it.
uk.news.yahoo.com/leeds-children-centre-harehills-riot-192329309.html

I understand, I dont mean I understand violent racism, I understand why we are where we are though. It was utterly predictable.

GrannyGravy13

Like I posted upthread, I do not condone violence, I do not agree with violent protests/riots.

I am jut trying to understand why and how these folks feel like they do.

Throwing insults along with labelling will not help this situation, all probability it will escalate and inflame it.

To understand the riots in Southport, London etc you need o look their social media sites.

The messages are similar to the proud boys, white supremacy etc in the USA.,

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Didn’t really want to comment, but felt the need to put the record straight regarding the woman arrested in NiceNanny post.

I listened to the audio of her arrest on the Sheila Foggerty programme yesterday (LBC).

Initially the woman was shouting that she wasn’t part of the angry mob, that she’s got a pacemaker, that she was just minding her own business and happened to be walking down that road. As she got more & more angry (I would say aggressive from her voice) her truth came out. She shouted ‘I’ve come here because them babies were murderd’. So not just ‘happened to be walking down the street then’!

The clips shown in NiceNanny’s post, which I suppose are doing the SM rounds, don’t tell the whole story,

Sky news reported today that more events are planned by the same groups that organised the Southport riots with some specific attacking of mosques.

"Police forces have been urged to step up patrols outside mosques and asylum seeker accommodation amid plans for at least 19 far-right rallies across England in coming days.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/01/police-in-england-urged-to-protect-mosques-as-far-right-plans-more-rallies

GrannyGravy13

Like I posted upthread, I do not condone violence, I do not agree with violent protests/riots.

I am jut trying to understand why and how these folks feel like they do.

Throwing insults along with labelling will not help this situation, all probability it will escalate and inflame it.

I think it’s pretty hard sometimes.

A peaceful protest which gets out of hand can, due to emotions and passion, very easily escalate into violence. I think that’s why (imo) police are “softer” on Pride and Gaza marches, they also tend to be visible but “softer” at events like Nottinghill Carnival.

When it comes to extreme groups though, at any end of the political ladder, these tend to be groups who appear to revel in thuggery and violence and will use any tiny excuse to “kick off” and I’m guessing that’s why different policing exists.

We can agree that all riots are different, but we are interested in and understand the bigger picture (I really dislike that phrase)

I am interested in how we (societal we not GN) can/should enlighten the wider public, particularly those who are on the fringes far right/far left (not sure that all of those attending the protests in Southport have a political bent ).

Should there be politics taught from yr 7 in senior school, along with human rights etc., ?

Nicenanny3

I agree GrannyGravy13

Keir Starmer has poured oil on the fire with his speech by labelling everyone who are upset about certain aspects of life now in the UK as Far Right Thugs and I don't disbute there are thugs on both sides right and left.

Yes it certainly seems like 2 tier policing.

The security services have labeled these groups as far right.

Starmer is reiterating the security forces including the anti-terrorist forces.

But whose politics? What values do you want to be taught, I am pretty sure not everyone on the thread would be able to agree on that. I am not undermining your suggestions GG, just looking at the complexity of it. British values are taught from early years downwards, but the issues we are talking about are so complex.

Early years onwards that should say.

Yes GG13 I've always felt that "civics" as they say in the USA should be taught.

And agree with cossy when she says "When it comes to extreme groups though, at any end of the political ladder, these tend to be groups who appear to revel in thuggery and violence and will use any tiny excuse to “kick off” and I’m guessing that’s why different policing exists.

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History lessons always have a good story to tell.

Easy to look at our history snd bring in our current values.

Holocaust, slavery, empire etc.

GrannyGravy13

We can agree that all riots are different, but we are interested in and understand the bigger picture (I really dislike that phrase)

I am interested in how we (societal we not GN) can/should enlighten the wider public, particularly those who are on the fringes far right/far left (not sure that all of those attending the protests in Southport have a political bent ).

Should there be politics taught from yr 7 in senior school, along with human rights etc., ?

Yes I agree more should be taught in schools re politics BUT it is hard, as we all know from here, not to let one’s own life experiences and political views cloud things.

I think it’s far more important to teach children, in age appropriate ways, to research, to question, to form their own independent views and to get them to understand that extremism and mindless violence and aggression is never acceptable.

Like it or not, there are more “far right” extremists causing problems, I echo the sentiments of those who say explore their social media, it’s utterly shocking and akin to social cleansing and I’m sorry to say this but Reform UK don’t help by “blaming” immigrants and small boats for every single woe in our country.

Nicenanny3

LizzieDrip

Didn’t really want to comment, but felt the need to put the record straight regarding the woman arrested in NiceNanny post.

I listened to the audio of her arrest on the Sheila Foggerty programme yesterday (LBC).

Initially the woman was shouting that she wasn’t part of the angry mob, that she’s got a pacemaker, that she was just minding her own business and happened to be walking down that road. As she got more & more angry (I would say aggressive from her voice) her truth came out. She shouted ‘I’ve come here because them babies were murderd’. So not just ‘happened to be walking down the street then’!

The clips shown in NiceNanny’s post, which I suppose are doing the SM rounds, don’t tell the whole story,

Yes she was walking down the street, yes part of the protest about the girls who were murdered. So you think it's OK for a 73 year old woman who said she had a pacemaker to be manhandled and handcuffed for doing nothing. Are we not allowed to peacefully protest like this lady was. Do you think it's OK. Definitely 2 tier policing. Police run away in Leeds but in the London protest manhandled and handcuff a 73 year old lady.

What about the other rioters in London and Southport etc.?