The right to peaceful protest in the UK

Galaxy

But whose politics? What values do you want to be taught, I am pretty sure not everyone on the thread would be able to agree on that. I am not undermining your suggestions GG, just looking at the complexity of it. British values are taught from early years downwards, but the issues we are talking about are so complex.

All political angles should in my opinion be taught in senior school, without prejudice towards any political party.

Discussions on personal responsibilities, free speech etc are just as important than if not more so than fronted adverbs and algebra.

Whitewavemark2

Nicenanny3
I agree GrannyGravy13

“Keir Starmer has poured oil on the fire with his speech by labelling everyone who are upset about certain aspects of life now in the UK as Far Right Thugs and I don't disbute there are thugs on both sides right and left.

Yes it certainly seems like 2 tier policing.
The security services have labeled these groups as far right.

Starmer is reiterating the security forces including the anti-terrorist forces.”

Starmer, imo, has NOT poured oil or fanned the flames. He is right to label the Tommy Robinson types as far right, because this is what they are.

What exactly do you mean about “certain aspects of life in the UK”

Is it Muslims, Asylum Seekers, Gays, Transgender, or all of the forementioned. Please elucidate.

Im not unhappy with any of the above, unlike some people I firmly believe that there are “good” and “bad” people across the spectrum and wouldn’t condemn any one cohort of people as”bad” or “wrong”.

I live pretty close to Southend, as with any seaside resort we’ve had our fair share of issues, across many many years. But I’ve found the majority of my neighbours and our community to be good honest and hardworking irrespective of their race, colour or religion.

I abhor discrimination of any type.

NiceNanny I think it’s obscene for anyone to use the murder of children's as an excuse to protest! What exactly were they (including the 73 year old) actually protesting about?

If any of them cared one jot about the children and their families, they’d have stayed in their homes and thought about the tragedy those people are experiencing.
And this includes the 73 year old woman, who IMO should know better - why did she need to be on the streets shouting and screeching. Respect for the bereaved???

I can only imagine how all this crap is making those families feel. Do you think they’re saying ‘oh, I’m glad people are out protesting about this horrific thing that has happened to me’?

For God’s sake! Whatever happened to empathy in this country!

LizzieDrip

NiceNanny I think it’s obscene for anyone to use the murder of children's as an excuse to protest! What exactly were they (including the 73 year old) actually protesting about?

If any of them cared one jot about the children and their families, they’d have stayed in their homes and thought about the tragedy those people are experiencing.
And this includes the 73 year old woman, who IMO should know better - why did she need to be on the streets shouting and screeching. Respect for the bereaved???

I can only imagine how all this crap is making those families feel. Do you think they’re saying ‘oh, I’m glad people are out protesting about this horrific thing that has happened to me’?

For God’s sake! Whatever happened to empathy in this country!

Yes.

Quiet respect it is called.

Dictatorship is in sight. These protestors are all called `thugs` and `far right` yet the gaza demonstrators are treated with kid gloves. Starmer is in a bubble, the people in this country have had enough for various reasons, we are not far right, just fed up with loss of community etc

If a protest is destined near me then I will attend. I have heard whispers and big protests will be happening all over. Get rid of the hooligan trouble makers, I second that, but leave the rest of us to protest before this country completely falls apart and we all know the reasons why

They were not protesters. They were rioters. Protest is legal, but rioting is not.

According to the news although the terrible incident happened in Southport - usually fairly uneventful and pretty genteel - trouble kicked off in Hartepool. What?

karmalady

Dictatorship is in sight. These protestors are all called `thugs` and `far right` yet the gaza demonstrators are treated with kid gloves. Starmer is in a bubble, the people in this country have had enough for various reasons, we are not far right, just fed up with loss of community etc

If a protest is destined near me then I will attend. I have heard whispers and big protests will be happening all over. Get rid of the hooligan trouble makers, I second that, but leave the rest of us to protest before this country completely falls apart and we all know the reasons why

If it wouldn’t be zapped I could post page after page of the Southport/London rioters communications.

You couldn’t tell the difference between them, Nazi sympathise, proud boys in USA and white supremicists.

Our security services have described them as far right.

The U.K. prime minister has been briefed by the security services.

What would you call these groups?

Let’s be clear, these protests are nothing to do with there being a Labour Government in power. Nothing would be any different if it was the Tories, or any other party who won the election a month ago. By joining a protest linked to the thugs who invaded a vigil in Southport people are perpetuating an obscene intrusion into the privacy of a grieving community.

I’m all for peaceful protest. I’m totally against protest fuelled by deliberate violence.

LizzieDrip

NiceNanny I think it’s obscene for anyone to use the murder of children's as an excuse to protest! What exactly were they (including the 73 year old) actually protesting about?

If any of them cared one jot about the children and their families, they’d have stayed in their homes and thought about the tragedy those people are experiencing.
And this includes the 73 year old woman, who IMO should know better - why did she need to be on the streets shouting and screeching. Respect for the bereaved???

I can only imagine how all this crap is making those families feel. Do you think they’re saying ‘oh, I’m glad people are out protesting about this horrific thing that has happened to me’?

For God’s sake! Whatever happened to empathy in this country!

I agree. Those poor bereaved families are having their children's deaths used as an excuse for rioting. I saw on social media an invitation to join the attack on the mosque which used a picture of one of the little girls. That is shameful.

LizzieDrip

NiceNanny I think it’s obscene for anyone to use the murder of children's as an excuse to protest! What exactly were they (including the 73 year old) actually protesting about?

If any of them cared one jot about the children and their families, they’d have stayed in their homes and thought about the tragedy those people are experiencing.
And this includes the 73 year old woman, who IMO should know better - why did she need to be on the streets shouting and screeching. Respect for the bereaved???

I can only imagine how all this crap is making those families feel. Do you think they’re saying ‘oh, I’m glad people are out protesting about this horrific thing that has happened to me’?

For God’s sake! Whatever happened to empathy in this country!

Very well said!

"Keir Starmer has poured oil on the fire with his speech labelling everyone who is upset about certain aspects of life in the UK now as the far right thugs, I don't dispute there are thugs on both sides of the right and left"

This I agree with. The pejorative labels attached such as "loony left" a chance bit of alliteration that's stuck and to readily attached, although there is a perception that surrounds left wing legal aid lawyers, particularly when they defend the indefensible that they are on a gravy train..Conversely, attaching the label "far right extremists" doesn't help when people are questioning aspects of far left orthodoxy. Spurious culture wars have fanned the flames in the last few years. Look no further than the insanity of the male bodied boxer who has been allowed to represent their country in the Olympics. Justifiably outraged we expend our energies on these insane practices that shouldn't be allowed but are, it has all the hallmarks of "loonyism" if that's a word, it probably isn't, but if you are one of those who oppose that for example, by some, we know we will be deemed as fascists. That's another word hurled about by younger demographics (sometimes) who don't appear to understand how a police state operates. Indeed that trans woman cyclist Emily something or other, referred to trans women not being able to compete as an act of genocide, how inappropriate!

The Tommy Robinsons of this world will flourish because there have been certain ethic groups who have been allowed to get away with criminal activities. I remember one Labour MP, retweeting something along the lines of this before she hastily got rid of it when it was picked up "white women need to be quiet in the interests of social cohesion" not verbatim but the gist "shut up and don't rock the boat" re Rotherham. When The Times broke the story, the reporter at the time had qualms about reporting it because it was "deemed too hot to handle"

karmalady

Dictatorship is in sight. These protestors are all called `thugs` and `far right` yet the gaza demonstrators are treated with kid gloves. Starmer is in a bubble, the people in this country have had enough for various reasons, we are not far right, just fed up with loss of community etc

If a protest is destined near me then I will attend. I have heard whispers and big protests will be happening all over. Get rid of the hooligan trouble makers, I second that, but leave the rest of us to protest before this country completely falls apart and we all know the reasons why

Do we “all know the reasons why”?

Please do elucidate.

to too ethic ethnic

Casdon

Let’s be clear, these protests are nothing to do with there being a Labour Government in power. Nothing would be any different if it was the Tories, or any other party who won the election a month ago. By joining a protest linked to the thugs who invaded a vigil in Southport people are perpetuating an obscene intrusion into the privacy of a grieving community.

I’m all for peaceful protest. I’m totally against protest fuelled by deliberate violence.

Yes. I think the last time the EDL made such a nuisance if themselves it was a Tory government in power.

Report dated 2010

MPs expressed concern tonight after it emerged that far-right activists are planning to step up their provocative street campaign by targeting some of the UK's highest-profile Muslim communities, raising fears of widespread unrest this summer.

The EDL (which has subsequently been banned) staged a number of anti-Islamic riots across the U.K.

So they are now simply regrouping and trying to cause trouble once again.

Nothing to do with the government

What is different this time around is that they are not forming “groups” as such, because they are trying to avoid being banned. But I’m sure the security forces can still arrest individuals for riot etc.

Whitewavemark2

Galaxy

As someone involved in childrens services, the idea that riots following a safeguarding incident does not impact on the wider community is not true. Those scenes impact those who work within that environment and who have to make difficult decisions eith regard to childrens welfare.

Yes but did it impact on the rest of the country? Were there incidents as a result in other parts of the country. Are those taking part seen as an existential threat to the U.K. as a whole. Are they of interest to the security services and monitored by the ani-terrorist police.

I think not.

The two incidents were entirely different.

They still caused havoc and fear amongst the people who were living in that area. Believe police cars were torched , police attacked. Violent chaos, and softly treated by the powers that be. Yes some arrested, good. Were they called right wing thugs or even thugs, no.
See the poor elderly lady standing in silent protest, surrounded by thuggish police, she is such a danger to the country. Hard eft wing and Islamists are more of a threat to our country than any elderly lady.

mae13

According to the news although the terrible incident happened in Southport - usually fairly uneventful and pretty genteel - trouble kicked off in Hartepool. What?

two separate riots
wtf is going on?

we all know the reasons why

Karmalady I’d prefer it if you didn’t speak for me … so not all.

GG13’s original post was regarding two tier policing and I totally agree with the point she is trying to make. I don’t need to read some newspaper article persuading me that it doesn’t exist, I prefer to use my own eye’s and ears. Look at a few examples:- the BLM riots where Police were actually taking the knee in front of the protesters; Leeds riots where the Police left the area completely; Palestinian marches every week where they openly support a banned terrorist organisation and shout for the annihilation of Jews and the Police watch on. Compare those with the other demonstrations where the Police turn up in full riot gear, particularly in London (again) where people (many certainly not far right thugs though some no doubt were) were systematically taken out and arrested one by one. Now all those causing trouble at any of these demonstrations deserve to be locked up and the key thrown away, and you can say what you want about intel but are you telling me the many BLM riots that took place were any different? No they weren’t, but they were certainly treated far differently. Peaceful protesting by anyone is fine, and by the same token any thugs causing trouble at any protest should be dealt with severely. But if anyone thinks they all treated the same then it’s time to take the proverbial head out of the sand. As can be seen in the video’s from London, not everyone there was a white thug intent on causing trouble so for Keir Starmer to label everyone as ‘far right’ is simply fanning the flames.

Freya5

Whitewavemark2

Galaxy

As someone involved in childrens services, the idea that riots following a safeguarding incident does not impact on the wider community is not true. Those scenes impact those who work within that environment and who have to make difficult decisions eith regard to childrens welfare.

Yes but did it impact on the rest of the country? Were there incidents as a result in other parts of the country. Are those taking part seen as an existential threat to the U.K. as a whole. Are they of interest to the security services and monitored by the ani-terrorist police.

I think not.

The two incidents were entirely different.

They still caused havoc and fear amongst the people who were living in that area. Believe police cars were torched , police attacked. Violent chaos, and softly treated by the powers that be. Yes some arrested, good. Were they called right wing thugs or even thugs, no.
See the poor elderly lady standing in silent protest, surrounded by thuggish police, she is such a danger to the country. Hard eft wing and Islamists are more of a threat to our country than any elderly lady.

"See the poor elderly lady standing in silent protest, surrounded by thuggish police, she is such a danger to the country. Hard eft wing and Islamists are more of a threat to our country than any elderly lady."

The reality of the image of the “elderly lady” described was identified and discredited at 10 29.32 on page 2:

"“I listened to the audio of her arrest on the Sheila Foggerty programme yesterday (LBC). 

Initially the woman was shouting that she wasn’t part of the angry mob, that she’s got a pacemaker, that she was just minding her own business and happened to be walking down that road.

As she got more & more angry (I would say aggressive from her voice) her truth came out.

She shouted ‘I’ve come here because them babies were murderd’. So not just ‘happened to be walking down the street then’!



The clips shown in NiceNanny’s post, which I suppose are doing the SM rounds, don’t tell the whole story"

Keir Starmer has announced a Violent Disorder Unit, which will be deployed to stop rioting and, well, violent disorder. I'm pleased that the rioting might be nipped in the bud, whoever is responsible.

As for what we are being told is generalised discontent - I hope that when the government has had a chance to put more measures in place to equalise society people might feel less 'left behind'. As it is, there are whole areas of the country where investment is very low, opportunities scarce and life chances limited. Of course people are resentful. They've had 14 years of being ignored. With luck that will change sooner rather than later.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Whatever the police or the government’s explanation for difference in policing protests and or riots, the average non-political person will see on other screens and social media:-

White (mostly) police go in hard.

Others (Roma, Palestinian, Black etc) police go in soft, if at all.

Those more informed are able to comprehend the why’s and wherefore’s the disenfranchised just see it as it is shown.

So would you prefer that the police not use their judgement and intelligence snd treat everyone the same?

That would be very poor policing.

What is needed is transparency and educating people who don’t understand the difference in different groups, the law and history.