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The right to peaceful protest in the UK

(166 Posts)
GrannyGravy13 Fri 02-Aug-24 09:18:33

I am all for planned peaceful protest in the U.K.

I am totally against rioting by any faction of society.

Here is my personal conundrum - when the protests turned into riots and kicked off in Leeds, buses burnt, police cars overturned and police attacked the police withdrew.

When the protests kicked off in Southport the police waded in, full force riot shields and dogs.

What started out as a peaceful protest in London ended with the police wading in and arresting random people. One they had to un-arrest as it turned out that he was just walking to the station after leaving work, and found himself in the midst.

At the Sarah Everade (sp) vigil the police were heavy handed towards one white female in particular.

In no way do I condone two tier policing but as an observer I am beginning to get why some young (predominantly white, but not all are) men are feeling that their concerns are met with greater force and resistance than those of other sections of the community.

Wyllow3 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:30:32

Sky news reported today that more events are planned by the same groups that organised the Southport riots with some specific attacking of mosques.

"Police forces have been urged to step up patrols outside mosques and asylum seeker accommodation amid plans for at least 19 far-right rallies across England in coming days.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/01/police-in-england-urged-to-protect-mosques-as-far-right-plans-more-rallies

LizzieDrip Fri 02-Aug-24 10:29:32

Didn’t really want to comment, but felt the need to put the record straight regarding the woman arrested in NiceNanny post.

I listened to the audio of her arrest on the Sheila Foggerty programme yesterday (LBC).

Initially the woman was shouting that she wasn’t part of the angry mob, that she’s got a pacemaker, that she was just minding her own business and happened to be walking down that road. As she got more & more angry (I would say aggressive from her voice) her truth came out. She shouted ‘I’ve come here because them babies were murderd’. So not just ‘happened to be walking down the street then’!

The clips shown in NiceNanny’s post, which I suppose are doing the SM rounds, don’t tell the whole story,

Nicenanny3 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:27:41

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Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:26:10

GrannyGravy13

Like I posted upthread, I do not condone violence, I do not agree with violent protests/riots.

I am jut trying to understand why and how these folks feel like they do.

Throwing insults along with labelling will not help this situation, all probability it will escalate and inflame it.

To understand the riots in Southport, London etc you need o look their social media sites.

The messages are similar to the proud boys, white supremacy etc in the USA.,

Galaxy Fri 02-Aug-24 10:25:40

I understand, I dont mean I understand violent racism, I understand why we are where we are though. It was utterly predictable.

Casdon Fri 02-Aug-24 10:24:45

I found this quite illuminating regarding the Leeds riot, how it was triggered and the aftermath. I do think the situations were quite different now I understand a bit more about it.
uk.news.yahoo.com/leeds-children-centre-harehills-riot-192329309.html

Cossy Fri 02-Aug-24 10:24:30

GrannyGravy13

Those of us who are interested in politics, poor on GN N & P threads probably have an overall understanding of politics and life outside of our own bubbles of friends and family.

There are100’s of 1,000’s of people in the U.K. that get their news from instagram, the water cooler, their mates and the occasional mainstream news clip.

They see the police in a different way, they see them leaving what they perceive as others alone (Rotherham has left its mark) and going hard on their peers (predominantly white, male , not exclusively though)

Whether or not this is a true representation is another discussion all together, but we have to realise that this is what they see and how they feel.

It’s these feelings that need to be addressed and grass roots level or I can see the EDL, BNP or whatever name they are using nowadays having recruits rushing to join.

Surely we all want to see peace on our streets…

I absolutely agree. Sadly, to quote Trump, “fake news” has a lot to answer for!

I think the police did get it entirely wrong at the Sarah Everard vigil, but I also believe that they dealt with the Southport “riots” well and don’t think they can be compared to what happened in Southend.

TerriBull Fri 02-Aug-24 10:24:12

My perception is that Tommy Robinson and his cohorts, who definitely constitute the "far right" will use any old excuse to kick off, as witnessed in Southport. Their ilk has been more visible since Labour took up office, so I'm wondering if that's some overt flexing their muscles signal.

I think a problem these days is that those who are positioned left of centre don't draw a distinction between the right and the "far right" the latter who are undoubtedly comprised of thugs, although that element is not exclusive to their demographic they are also present on the far left too.

There is a perception that the Police are not always as even handed as they should be. The behaviour by the far right agitators at Southport was without a doubt disgraceful and without any evidence, or false hearsay, misdirected their aggression towards the Muslim population who had nothing to do with the atrocity. Undoubtedly the police had a difficult job there in reigning in the thuggery that was going on. There is undoubtedly a disparity in how the police per se have handled different protests, disgracefully heavy handed in the peaceful protest by women in the aftermath of the shocking Sarah Everard case, was that because the perpetrator was one of their own?

Criticism has been drawn over their light policing of the pro Gaza marches for example, also the fact that the police are at times visibly joining in with Pride marches, when there is a lack of their presence on the streets. Combined with historical obfuscation surrounding crimes that were suppressed, Rotherham grooming for example, there is a palpable distrust in their lack of even- handedness. When this is picked up it does at times seem that such critics will be deemed as if they are from the "far right" because there are "some" who frame any opinion that descents from their overall view as thus, which imo is fuelling the flames of division.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:22:48

Yes gg13 I agree about feeling and emotion. Which is often how people vote.. you can see it on this forum.

The only way is to constantly plug away at the misinformation - look at what we have witnessed recently and how easily it is believed without critical thinking. Being as open as possible about decisions etc. also helps I think.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:18:49

Like I posted upthread, I do not condone violence, I do not agree with violent protests/riots.

I am jut trying to understand why and how these folks feel like they do.

Throwing insults along with labelling will not help this situation, all probability it will escalate and inflame it.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:14:59

Those of us who are interested in politics, poor on GN N & P threads probably have an overall understanding of politics and life outside of our own bubbles of friends and family.

There are100’s of 1,000’s of people in the U.K. that get their news from instagram, the water cooler, their mates and the occasional mainstream news clip.

They see the police in a different way, they see them leaving what they perceive as others alone (Rotherham has left its mark) and going hard on their peers (predominantly white, male , not exclusively though)

Whether or not this is a true representation is another discussion all together, but we have to realise that this is what they see and how they feel.

It’s these feelings that need to be addressed and grass roots level or I can see the EDL, BNP or whatever name they are using nowadays having recruits rushing to join.

Surely we all want to see peace on our streets…

Wyllow3 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:10:53

I don't think one wrongful arrest "proves" anything except the police made one wrongful arrest.

But yes, the police need to be seen as even handed as far a reasonably possible..

However, the response to a preplanned and known event is likely to be different to one that suddenly happens simply in terms of available resources.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:07:20

Galaxy

I would say undermining safeguarding processes and those scenes did that are a threat across the country.
If you are talking about riots the far right in southport worry me, in terms of terrorist incidents such as attacks on concerts, etc they dont worry me at all.

I m not sure what you are saying - sorry to be dim.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:05:35

JaneJudge

EDL don't represent the white working classes

Of course not - they merely claim they do.

Galaxy Fri 02-Aug-24 10:04:52

I would say undermining safeguarding processes and those scenes did that are a threat across the country.
If you are talking about riots the far right in southport worry me, in terms of terrorist incidents such as attacks on concerts, etc they dont worry me at all.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:03:45

You are in danger also of playing into the hands of the far right by muddling the two.

Our parents knew what they were facing when Mosley came along, And we should as well.

JaneJudge Fri 02-Aug-24 10:03:29

EDL don't represent the white working classes

Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:01:29

Wyllow3

The Times today

"How myth of two-tier policing helped spread trouble in Southport
Hard-right protesters want to perpetuate the fallacy that the white working classes are treated more harshly than people from diverse backgrounds"

"Myth, fallacy".

It's a matter of policing relevant to the situations and nature of civil unrest and protest. Is it a "within a community" situation, or a large number of people turning up from outside with the sole motivation to make trouble? Is it trouble makers on a march? Is it an M 25 situation?

Yes

Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 10:00:55

Galaxy

As someone involved in childrens services, the idea that riots following a safeguarding incident does not impact on the wider community is not true. Those scenes impact those who work within that environment and who have to make difficult decisions eith regard to childrens welfare.

Yes but did it impact on the rest of the country? Were there incidents as a result in other parts of the country. Are those taking part seen as an existential threat to the U.K. as a whole. Are they of interest to the security services and monitored by the ani-terrorist police.

I think not.

The two incidents were entirely different.

Galaxy Fri 02-Aug-24 09:57:14

I think there were women in that group werent there?

Wyllow3 Fri 02-Aug-24 09:56:06

The Times today

"How myth of two-tier policing helped spread trouble in Southport
Hard-right protesters want to perpetuate the fallacy that the white working classes are treated more harshly than people from diverse backgrounds"

"Myth, fallacy".

It's a matter of policing relevant to the situations and nature of civil unrest and protest. Is it a "within a community" situation, or a large number of people turning up from outside with the sole motivation to make trouble? Is it trouble makers on a march? Is it an M 25 situation?

Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 09:54:57

And last time I looked a group of JSO protesters (white/male) were jailed for 5 years.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 09:51:41

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 I understand where you are coming from, I really do.

I am trying to see all sides impartially, and it is becoming obvious that the police treat shite male protesters totally different from others.

Even BLM marches which took place during our Covid lockdowns and therefore illegal under the Covid laws were policed softly softly and allowed to continue.

Our police needs to be seen to treat all fairly and equally and that is not happening at the moment, and hasn’t done for a while.

It isn’t because they are white male it is because they pose a threat to British society.

Their colour/gender is immaterial.

Their level of threat is on a different scale to those you have quoted.

They are treated the same as (although not yet classified) as terrorists, and the anti-terrorist police constantly monitor them..

You are comparing apples and pears.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 02-Aug-24 09:50:41

We had an incident local to us this week, eight lads with machetes fighting each other, they were contained, arrested and charged. This happened in daylight.

Later that evening when dark, along the seafront there were 100’s of black youths running up and down causing mayhem and fear amongst holiday makers (I have only just seen the footage) not a police officer to be seen.

The point I am trying to make is that the police need to be seen as treating all situations, protests and even riots equally and that is not happening.

Nicenanny3 Fri 02-Aug-24 09:50:39

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