Immigrants and expats

Urmstongran

Sterling is and has been doing well against the euro for years. Fact.

woo de do.

Maybe the difference is ( apart form colour) an expat can go " home".

Urmstongran

Sterling is and has been doing well against the euro for years. Fact.

Not true.
We have over 10 years detailed information on our household financial management spreadsheets which clearly shows the negative impact of the decline in the pound to euro exchange rate since Brexit.
Do you?

10 years Mamie?

Well I can go back to spring 2011 when we bought mi Casa in Spain and the rate fluctuated between 1.07 and 1.12 for months on end while the purchase was going through!

varian

So is there no difference between people originally from the UK, who live in another country, and regard themselves as "expats" and people, originally from another country who now live in the UK but are called "immigrants"?

"Immigrants are usually defined as people who have come to a different country to live permanently, expats are defined by the temporary nature of their status. An interesting article can be found on the BBC website.

Urmstongran

Sterling is and has been doing well against the euro for years. Fact.

Published by
Raynor de Best
, Aug 6, 2024
The pound to euro history reveals that exchange rates in 2022 were not as low as they were during 2008 or since the Brexit referendum. Since the United Kingdom (UK) held a referendum on its European Union membership in June 2016, the British pound (GBP) weakened against the euro. From a high of 1.43 at the end of Nov 2015, the GBP to EUR exchange rate has remained below 1.2 since July 2016, sitting at 1.11 as of October 2020. By August 4, 2024, values had reached 1.17 euros per pound. ‘

This is a published fact.

From Satista, Finance and Investments

Pantglas2

10 years Mamie?

Well I can go back to spring 2011 when we bought mi Casa in Spain and the rate fluctuated between 1.07 and 1.12 for months on end while the purchase was going through!

It has always fluctuated Pantglas2, but had been consistently higher for several years before Brexit and then fell sharply. We have a monthly transfer from the UK and need the exchange rate for our French tax form so we have that in the spreadsheet. We bought our house at 1.56 in 2004, dropped very briefly to parity on a couple of days in 2008 and from 2014 it was 1.24, 1.29 and 1.26 on our annual declarations. It has fluctuated from 1.04 and to 1.19 since and our annual declaration has been around 1.14.
Before anyone says it I accept that you take a risk on the exchange rate when you retire abroad. I am simply correcting the misinformation that sterling has done well since Brexit.

I recall buying our little place 20 years ago at the commercial (high) rate. I also recall in 2009 we had a holiday in Lanzarote where we exchanged some sterling at the hotel reception desk. The rate was 99 cents for a pound sterling. 😱
Swings and roundabouts people.

Cossy

varian

So is there no difference between people originally from the UK, who live in another country, and regard themselves as "expats" and people, originally from another country who now live in the UK but are called "immigrants"?

None whatsoever Except l, for some reason, Brits abroad sometimes feel superior!

A generalisation of seemingly anti British feelings. I have never met any Briton working overseas, met a few, my family one, who feel superior to the population of the country they are working in.

Well sterling (sometimes) wasn’t doing too well BEFORE Brexit either! 🤣

Urmstongran

Well sterling (sometimes) wasn’t doing too well BEFORE Brexit either! 🤣

If you read my post you will see that there are fluctuations, trends and annual figures. In 20 years living in France we have had 1. 56 and parity. That proves nothing.

I never lived abroad as a retiree, I've only just got to that stage!, but it occurred to me that an "expat" will be forever thus, because they rely on their home country to finance their life. By that I mean their pensions, in effect their incomes, will always come from their home country. On the other hand, to be an "immigrant", does this mean you come with nothing, receive nothing, so you automatically become dependent on your new homeland to support you?

Joseann

I never lived abroad as a retiree, I've only just got to that stage!, but it occurred to me that an "expat" will be forever thus, because they rely on their home country to finance their life. By that I mean their pensions, in effect their incomes, will always come from their home country. On the other hand, to be an "immigrant", does this mean you come with nothing, receive nothing, so you automatically become dependent on your new homeland to support you?

Obviously there are immigrants to the U.K. who certainly don’t ‘come with nothing’ - I’m thinking especially of recent immigrants from Hong Kong, but I doubt that the rioters have those in mind.

I used to bring young school children to France on school trips. How much easier it was for those with poor Maths skills, (that includes me, the teacher), to work on parity between the £ and the €. I remember one year the exchange was around 1.70 which required getting out the calculator every time someone wanted to buy a souvenir. Only to find, whoopee, they could buy two with their money!! ...And don't talk to be about the boys' obsession to buy swords, daggers and penknives in the shops at French châteaux!

I think of ex-pats as people who go to live in other countries but intend to perhaps come back to the UK one day - a foot in both camps.

Immigrants (or emigrants) are people who leave with the intention of starting a new life in a new country although, of course, some may return for various reasons.

Just my thoughts.

a foot in both camps
I guess you will always have an "interest" back in the UK if it has supported you well in the past, and if you maybe intend to return for whatever reason. Isn't that why some people decry our current state of affairs, because they think it could affect them badly if they return? Thinking of the OP's example.

Fleurpepper

TerriBull 'The distinction between an ex-pat and an immigrant, as I always understood it, is this, an ex pat is a person who goes to another country generally for work but intends to return to their home country at some stage. An immigrant is a person who leaves their home country to settle in another'

this really does not work in many cases. I know so many 'expats' who moved for a year or two, and then remained for many more. Quite a few forever, and often acquired a second nationality.

And yes, I know that this will drive Aveline spare, but this much more so since 'you know what, since 2016. As going back lost its attractivity, to say the least. For many, also because of massive concerns about healthcare and the state of the NHS, and loss of free movement.

I dare say some ex-pats may stay on in a country they have chosen. I was coming at this from an angle of employment. As stated previously my ex worked for an American bank, it was not uncommon for employees to be posted abroad for a period of time as it is for workers in other industries. If, we had gone to Saudi, as some colleagues did, I can say without any doubt, never in a million years would we have wanted to settle there if indeed that was possible.. My experience of those that went, they couldn't wait to get the hell out of such a place or anywhere like it.. I was making an attempt to draw a comparison between those who may choose to go to another country and those who go there merely for work for a duration of time in which case they aren't immigrants. Although I also appreciate the manual workforce from the Indian sub continent who are generally exploited in places like Qatar and Dubai are referred to as an immigrant workforce and at one time so were the Turkish people who went to work in Germany, much to do with the rights afforded or lack of them I imagine. Anyway, an anomaly in how they're described.

Joseann

^a foot in both camps^
I guess you will always have an "interest" back in the UK if it has supported you well in the past, and if you maybe intend to return for whatever reason. Isn't that why some people decry our current state of affairs, because they think it could affect them badly if they return? Thinking of the OP's example.

I'm not sure abut ^supported you well^unless you mean educated you, the NHS cared for you when growing up.

It's a two way thing, enterprising people contribute to society too but may think life is better elsewhere.

I'm overthinking this, but when I chose to go to France to receive an education, then I was an "immigrant". But when I later chose to return to leave the UK and return to France to work, I was an "expat". So it must be to to with status, and dependency?

I'm not sure abut ^supported you well unless you mean educated you, the NHS cared for you when growing up^.
Yes, along those lines.
What is a better life? Just a different experience sometimes.

Joseann

^I'm not sure abut supported you well unless you mean educated you, the NHS cared for you when growing up^.
Yes, along those lines.
What is a better life? Just a different experience sometimes.

More opportunity, a better job?

Urmstongran

Well sterling (sometimes) wasn’t doing too well BEFORE Brexit either! 🤣

Well,you are right there, When my mother came to study in Hastings in 1932, Sterling was 20 Francs to 1 £. In 1970, it was so easy for calculations, 10 Francs to 1£.

In 2008, we bought a house in a cheap, rural and non touristy part of Switzerland, and it was 2.48 to £1. After Brexit, there was a huge slump, and it went down to 1.09! It slowly went up to 1.14- and in last few days, it has slumped again to its lowest EVER, 1.03.. I am not so good with figures- but could someone perhaps kindly calculate the percentage loss from 2.48

One foot in two places is inevitable, family, friends, love for the country and travel. But mostly, anyone with a British pension is totally locked in to the system, there is no escaping (and yes, I am fully aware from previous comments by some, that you find it hilariously funny).

Even if you don't care at all about those 'expats' who chose to move out for the 'good life'- and fair enough- you must realise it is a disaster for the country as a whole. Much of what we import, including medicines, meat, fruit and veg we can't grow here, chemicals (for water purification for instance) and so so much more- will cost even more as a result. And the debt repayments too, and the debt is huge.

So, yes

1932 = 20

1970 = 10

2008= 2.48

2024= 1.03

Talk about a humongous disaster for UK.

Now one could argue it would be good for tourism- but at present, no-one with a sane mind would come to UK with riots all over the place.

And it could be reall good for industry and exports (although many components and materials have to be imported in order to manufacture) - has mostly gone, and exports have been made so so much more difficult and expensive, due to (sorry Aveline, but it is so so true and still so relevant) Brexit.

Now one could argue it would be good for tourism- but at present, no-one with a sane mind would come to UK with riots all over the place.
The thing is, Fleurpepper, that geography doesn't preclude riots from happening anywhere. You're right that it is happening on a big scale in the UK, but last summer in France there was a week of riots all over the country. When the policeman shot Nahel Merzouk in Paris. (?). I was a tourist in June 2023 in France, DD2 and family holidayed a week or so afterwards in France, no one with a sane mind cancelled their trip to France because of the riots.
It's the same in the UK this summer. My French friends aren't refusing to come to visit Devon this month because Plymouth saw one night of riots.
I think over 6000 vehicles were set on fire during the riots in France, and a lot of property damaged. So the UK doesn't have the monopoly on bad behaviour. It all boils down to the fact that both countries are grappling with decades of failure to better integrate their "immigrants".

What do you mean by 'integrate'? And who are the immigrants? Many of those totally alienated in French society are 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation - from ex French territories. And perfectly 'integrated', but massively discriminated against, still. Despite being fully 'integrated' and well educated, and not showing outwards signs of their 'immigrant' status, apart from skin colour.

Very different in the UK until recently. Where totlerance and acceptation of differences was the norm, and really part of British culture for a very long time. Celts, Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Picts, Jutes, Romans, Normans and on and on. British culture IS built on immigration, always has.

So, au contraire, this kind of behaviour is alien to GREAT Britain.

But back to 'integration', whatever that means. Parts of France, Spain, Switzerland, Italy and many other parts of Europe- are full of 'expats' who never integrate- don't speak the language, own cafés, shops, Churches, schools, foods, illegal workers bringing in white goods, etc, from UK, and illegal labour. On the Costas, parts of Dordogneshire and Tuscany even. Not integrated at all many of them- don't speak the language, go to their own clubs, schools and churches, with little contact with the local population. Not all, by any means- but in certain areas, just too many.