Immigrants and expats

pascal30

I think they went out to much cheaper properties with a bit of a nest egg, and then found the reality of not being able to find jobs and the high cost of building materials eventually made life there impossible.. although they were all young at the time..

In the case of some of our relatives, they bought a very rundown (derelict) property which might otherwise have fallen down, have lovingly restored it, integrated into the village life there but still keep a flat here so that they can come over to see the grandchildren.
Thry had worked in Europe part of the time before they retired.

I know of another couple (not friends of ours but we met them a few times) who sold up in the UK, gave a lump sum to their son for his business and went to Spain. Their son's business folded, they wanted to come back from Spain but couldn't afford to.

Joseann

I think that when people decide to emigrate, meticulous research needs to be done first - can you afford to live there comfortably for at least a couple of years without relying on any handouts. Can you afford healthcare. Do you have the necessary skills to find a good job. Are you prepared to just accept anything. Do you even speak the language.

Of course. In our case I knew the area so well as I grew up here. My native language, lots of friends, a real attachment to the region. But nothing, nothing at all- could predict a 55% loss in income due to fall of Sterling. 2.48 when we bought, and down to just above parity now. A 55% + loss. Of course fluctuations of currency are expected- but this percentage could never be predicted.

Joseann

I think that when people decide to emigrate, meticulous research needs to be done first - can you afford to live there comfortably for at least a couple of years without relying on any handouts. Can you afford healthcare. Do you have the necessary skills to find a good job. Are you prepared to just accept anything. Do you even speak the language.

You can't do that now though. You have to prove that you have the financial resources. The official figures for France say 9,000 people moved here from the UK in 2023. Brexit means that because of third country status and residency cards there is now accurate data. Changes to residency rules will eventually mean a B2 level in French. It will not apply retrospectively to people with WARP cards.

How many years ago since the Euro was worth 2.48 to the pound Sterling? Of course the rate has changed. It's hard to believe how obsessed you still are with Brexit. Life has moved on.

I think the fall of sterling after Brexit was certainly dramatic and pretty immediate, and it took everyone by surprise. However, the economic crisis of 2008 saw the pound drop to 1.02 which I believe was the lowest rate ever ever, and of course, before Brexit.
The fact that covid came along, then inflation, means it hasn't really had a chance to bounce back like it used to.

Aveline

How many years ago since the Euro was worth 2.48 to the pound Sterling? Of course the rate has changed. It's hard to believe how obsessed you still are with Brexit. Life has moved on.

I remember driving around France in those days and staying in less than half price hotels (compared to UK).. it was amazing and as I don't think that exchange rate lasted for very long..

Joseann Many of the buy and renovate British buying houses in France were actually second home owners, and we were one of them. Restoration was actually nowhere as expensive as you suggest. Most of the work was done by the owners who judiciously compared the prices of DIY materials in France and the UK and imported or bought local as was most advantagious.

As we travelled back and forth on the ferry, you could tell the second house renovators at a glance. They, generally, owned large and capacious estate cars with roof racks, some even had trailers and the whole vehicle would be loaded to the gunwhales with building materials, gardening equipment, second hand funiture anything that could be needed.

Even when the renovation was complete they still had the same casual air to packing the car.No neatly packed suitcases carefully packed in the backs of cars. Just bags,boxes and anything required for the visit just chucked in the back.

Wem fortunately, bought our second home in Normandy, close to the channel ports and one of the cheapest areas in France to buy a property.

Sadly we are no longer second home owners. We decided that when we were 80 we would sell our much loved home in France, expecting , as so often happens in France, to take a couple of years to find a buyer.

In fact we sold in days, so after 33 years we no longer have a base in France - except we have found a gite, quite close to our old home, with owners next door who are our age and this is gradually becoming our French base. We are still going across to France regulalry and will always live with France as our home from home.

The car boots on the ferry always amuse me M0nica, and everyone seems to want to unpack half of them while queuing at the ports! Anything and everything gets shifted to and fro. Unfortunately we can't fill the boot because we have one or two large dogs in it. (but we can hide a few extra things in with them as no one checks!)

Yes, if the British owners are doing up the places themselves they can do them on the cheap. We only employed French artisans and the quotes were way above what you would expect, but the job done was first class using French materials. We were living there, not holiday makers. I believe if you live in a country you should employ the locals as part of your integration.

Aveline

How many years ago since the Euro was worth 2.48 to the pound Sterling? Of course the rate has changed. It's hard to believe how obsessed you still are with Brexit. Life has moved on.

I was not talking about the Euro!

Chocolatelovinggran

I understand that the gentleman who calls himself Tommy Robinson is living in Spain now. I wonder how he describes himself?

Gentleman is not the word I'd use, but ...

Just like others who fought for Brexit, he managed to get an other nationality, in his case Irish (his mother) - to avoid the limitations imposed on others by said Brexit. And has gone to live in Spain- and now sunning himself in Cyprus!

Cyprus has offered to extradite him back to UK. And I certainly hope will refuse him right to return to Spain. And that his finances and taxed in both countries are thoroughly investigated.

BTW has Farage, MP for Clacton, registred all his financial interests, as per British Law?

Fleurpepper no doubt Mr Robinson is learning Greek, joining the Orthodox Church, and seeking work in his adopted country, although I'm not sure of how legal his status is there.
He has been rather critical of those who arrived in Britain and didn't do any of these activities.

Aveline

How many years ago since the Euro was worth 2.48 to the pound Sterling? Of course the rate has changed. It's hard to believe how obsessed you still are with Brexit. Life has moved on.

Probably about the same time the Australian $ was 2.4 to the GBP.
We thought of buying a flat there at the time but events took over.

So decades then?

Aveline

So decades then?

I think it was about 22 or 23 years ago

I believe if you live in a country you should employ the locals as part of your integration

We only holiday here in Málaga Joseann but over the years, we too have always had work done in our little apartment by Spanish people. We feel it’s our small contribution to their local economy after all.

Also, some English "bodgers" met with problems when their electrical wiring didn't meet the French standards. And it seems a bit daft to drag IKEA kitchen units over from England to install in a property when there's Leroy Merlin in France or the likes of Conforama. I know that for some English people doing up a gîte becomes a DIY hobby, but I repeat - there's a reason why the French don't want these properties, and consequently why English people find them difficult to sell on having spent lots of money on them. Mamie is right. The dreamy tv programmes in the 90s had a lot to answer for.
I have sympathy for people who moved permanently and came unstuck, and for those who didn't factor in exchange rate fluctuations, but life doesn't always go to plan.

Exchange rates are bound to have fluctuated over so many years. Nothing costs the same as it did 20+ years ago.

Joseann

Also, some English "bodgers" met with problems when their electrical wiring didn't meet the French standards. And it seems a bit daft to drag IKEA kitchen units over from England to install in a property when there's Leroy Merlin in France or the likes of Conforama. I know that for some English people doing up a gîte becomes a DIY hobby, but I repeat - there's a reason why the French don't want these properties, and consequently why English people find them difficult to sell on having spent lots of money on them. Mamie is right. The dreamy tv programmes in the 90s had a lot to answer for.
I have sympathy for people who moved permanently and came unstuck, and for those who didn't factor in exchange rate fluctuations, but life doesn't always go to plan.

Just back from our local Ikea! (I needed an oblong pillow). My daughter loves the French one as it is so much quieter.
I think the principle of buying locally is right, but I wouldn't be too precious about it; if tradespeople have set up a company, working to French norms and paying the (hefty) contributions, then I am not bothered about their country of origin.
By the way, we along with many other people got all the investment back on our rural property - Parisians were snapping them up at full asking price during Covid.

I thought you meant that the square French pillows were quieter Mamie! Silly me! (I can never get on with the square ones personally.)
We had a very old 16th century property, which was a religious site, so we were keen to employ knowdgeable French artisans who used tradional building methods from the region. In our off plan apartment on the coast, it was just easier to go with the recommnded French tilers and fitters.
We nade a good friend with one of them.
I'm pleased you got your investment back quickly. There are still many grumpy posters on the expat forums who haven't managed to sell. Or maybe some people are just moaners whatever!?

Joseann

I thought you meant that the square French pillows were quieter Mamie! Silly me! (I can never get on with the square ones personally.)
We had a very old 16th century property, which was a religious site, so we were keen to employ knowdgeable French artisans who used tradional building methods from the region. In our off plan apartment on the coast, it was just easier to go with the recommnded French tilers and fitters.
We nade a good friend with one of them.
I'm pleased you got your investment back quickly. There are still many grumpy posters on the expat forums who haven't managed to sell. Or maybe some people are just moaners whatever!?

Quiet Ikea!
I guess selling country properties was about location. Calvados is pretty popular with Parisians for second homes.

I like Calvados, both the department and the brandy! Fond memories of taking school parties to Trouville sur mer, then round Bayeux. Later Honfleur became our favourite stop off en route from Dinard to Calais. I can see why it appeals to Parisians. Yes, location!

whereas down in the Dordogne, a Brit favourite, there are masses of houses for sale by ageing Brits.. and often unsold for years. I was told that one of the reasons was because there is so little infrastructure in terms of trains and buses and Medical Centres have become difficult to attend..

Callistemon213

Joseann

Thanks growstuff. So, a bit like there being a group of "new Whites" in the Greek and Italian contingent of Europeans?
(Though I would have expected the more amorous horny southern group to have travelled north to do the impregnating!!)

Some Celtic tribes were fair (or red) haired with light skin and blue eyes, others were dark-skinned with dark hair and brown eyes.

Ditto some Eastern Europeans. Peopl from certain parts of Italy are blond, fair-skinned and blue-eyed.

Most of us are an amalgam.

I seem to remember from an OU course I did aeons ago, that an Ancient Greek writer (Herodotus?) said that people (and animals) would imagine that their god would look like themselves. So e.g. Nubians would imagine a black god, horses would imagine a horse-god, and Thracians (Thrace is now IIRC in northern Greece) would imagine a god with red hair!

It really startled me to think of any people in what is now Greece - or anywhere in a similar area of southern Europe - routinely having red hair!

I thought Celtic people were the ones with red hair. Although I'm pretty sure somewhere in Homer's epic poems there was mention of someone with red hair. Maybe Helen of Troy?

Joseann DH rewired our house entirely to French regulations. he was actually a contributor to a forum for professional French electricians advising them on the interpretation of some of the rules, after they were revised.

For DH it was a hobby, he is never happier than wandering around screw driver in hand. Nor were our renovations particularly expensive

As for selling we were in Manche and sold in two days.