Teachers leaving the profession

Aveline

I agree Grammaretto. It's very noticeable that all the prizewinners and winners of scholarships at DGS's school are Asian. Many Chinese children. Some are very talented musicians as well as highly academic. I suspect great expectations of them at home. All polite and respectful. Teachers must love them!

Truly Aveline
He recently achieved 97% in a maths exam and didn't come top.

I agree Grammaretto. It's very noticeable that all the prizewinners and winners of scholarships at DGS's school are Asian. Many Chinese children. Some are very talented musicians as well as highly academic. I suspect great expectations of them at home. All polite and respectful. Teachers must love them!

One of my DS spends a huge amount to send both his DC to independent schools where they are happy and do well. DGS will be a prefect this year.

DS himself was badly bullied at his state high school which at that time was the biggest school in Scotland. Even the teachers bullied him!

He was able to move to a smaller state school in Edinburgh where he thrived and went on to university etc.

I always wanted my DC to go to the local school and be part of the community, warts and all, but when they are unhappy you sometimes have to sacrifice your principles and we were prepared to do that if we had to.
A large proportion of the pupils at the DGC independent school are Asian and expected, even pressured, to do well academically.

Oh. Was that supposed to be funny?

I remember being on a cruise with a bunch of stuffy Brits. Everyone said what they did for a living and I mentioned that I was a university lecturer.

"Ah yes, some people do and others teach" One of them said sarcastically.

"That sounds like something you pulled our of a cheap cracker from the garage shop" I told him.

Everyone laughed and the joke was on him. You should have seen his face. We Liverpudlians are great at sharp one liners.

Good on you, tictacnana More teachers like you are needed and good for you for highlighting some of the issues!

I retired from teaching 10 years ago after 40 years at the chalk face. It wasn’t the behaviour pupils ty made the job so hard . It was management and the petty backbiting of staff who had no skill or flair for the job. Also, I have to say too, the ‘bright young things’ with a degree in dance trying to get to grips with teaching maths or English grammar in primary classes and failing miserably. I was told by the head of the school where I worked for nearly 20 years that she could get TWO such teachers for what she was paying me. As the saying goes … “ You pay peanuts … “ As many schools gain academy status, making them businesses, so the quality of teaching diminishes through poor quality or even unqualified staff - all to save money. It’s not a profession or a calling anymore. It hasn’t been for some time. Also, what teachers are asked to teach under the guise of PSHE etc .is not what should be part of the curriculum. I don’t think, in all conscience, I could have dealt with some of these issues with young children. My granddaughter, at 12, chose ,and was granted the choice, to opt out of these lessons. Teachers can’t opt out - unless, in many cases , they opt out of the profession.

For me, it was not anything to do with pupil behaviour which drove me out of teaching. It was the ridiculous workload. Any good teacher can manage student behaviour. It’s part of the job. But SLT, government and Ofsted requirements turned the job into a 70 or 80 hour a week job. Lesson plans to be turned in weekly, additional meetings, extra before school, breaktime, lunchtime, after school duties, hours upon hours of planning and marking, extra before/after school revision sessions, detention requirements. The job is simply incompatible with having any sort of life outside work.

my son burnt out at 35, he narrowly avoided a mental breakdown by changing jobs, now at 42 he works in an education related job, he c/would not ever return to teaching, teaching is a reflection of what is going on in society at large, basically out of control.........

I suppose you'd need to look at the standard of the schools, too, to be fair.

Not sure if things have changed that much. I was sent to a small private girls school until I was 15 and rebelled, insisting I wanted that least try and sit O levels (oddly the private school wouldn't agree to this). I went to a secondary modern for a year in the top class which did let us do a few O levels not just CSEs. Even then some of the kids were appalling, disruptive and horrible to the teachers so very little got done. One subject Teacher hit one of the disruptive kids and was given a little more respect (I actually got a passable grade in that subject). The kids who wanted more had to go to the local FE college to retrieve their grades or sit A levels. What's gone is the opportunity to have a second bash at the exams, day release or evening classes... Ironically, I spent most of my working life as a university lecturer so I did ok but so many didn't. I feel sorry for those who's school lives were, and often still are, marred by the poor behaviour of others and bullying, yet they still have to attend school or risk parents being prosecuted. On the radio this morning, probably radio 4, a news article on a private school experimenting with learning delivered partly online at the students own pace with afternoons spent in discussion and so on. If I can find it I'll try and post details (away camping at the moment) and this is, to me, the beginning of a possible solution for a lot of kids who want to focus on learning in their own way. It's not just teachers who have a hard time with badly behaved children destroying the learning environment, it's the other kids too. Soul destroying for teachers and students and low levels of education don't equip people to deal with the complexity and speed of change we are experiencing in modern life.

When you look at some of the yobs rioting recently you can see the kind of kids they were at school and what teachers faced. Not surprising teachers leave.

I think it is similar here polly123 - probably world wide now? Some pupils come here to escape the regimes in some of the Asian countries where a lot of pressure is put on youngsters to achieve. They get suicidal in some instances. We don’t have a great deal of pressure here, and I’m thankful for that but still plenty of problems and issues. Few want to teach anymore.

I left teaching a few years ago when things were already bad. Behaviour management was a joke and so was support. Lots of meetings and words but rarely any action. Inexperienced staff were promoted to get them out of the classroom where they couldn't cope and they then tried to advise the experienced members of staff in interminable meetings, what they should be doing in the classroom! You couldn't make it up.

When evapes are being sold by children in primary school playgrounds and teachers can do nothing eg search bags of those allegedly seen selling no point informing police unless children can be identified. No wonder teachers are leaving in droves absolutely no authority left when it comes to schools.

Feel sorry for the teachers because they haven't many punishments they can give misbehaving pupils. Why do so many children now have ADHD, we never had that but had proper discipline, not physical. Parents don't support the teachers either but defend their children's bad behaviour. Teachers haven't got a leg to stand on.

Grammaretto

My DGC must be lucky. They are happy at school and get wonderful reports.
My 6yr old adores her teacher and has been following her pregnancy with great interest. She ofcourse will have a new teacher this week.

However 35 years ago, I was at A&E with my DS who had a minor injury. Sitting opposite us was a male primary school teacher with a nasty head wound. He had been beaten up by the older brother of a pupil whom he had reprimanded.

Two of my nephews and a cousin have gone into teaching from other careers, taking lower pay. One told me his previous job as an editor was dull. He's now teaching in a massive secondary school in a deprived area. It certainly isn't dull.

My DGC loved their village school and the teachers were emotional and quite tearful at the respective leaving assemblies.

It's not fair on other pupils and the staff if just one totally out-of-control pupil can disrupt the school.
It's easy for someone sitting at home on a keyboard to say staff should be able to control him.

And who can blame them. Dealing with abuse etc 1-1 is quite different from trying to educate a class of 20 plus holigans. Believe me I know.

Grammaretto said "My DGC must be lucky. They are happy at school and get wonderful reports. My 6yr old adores her teacher"
And possibly therein lies the problem. Teachers often work ridiculously hard to give their pupils the best deal they can, both in terms of academic learning and relationships. The more the Leadership Team, Ofsted and govt push (euphemism for bully) classroom teachers with new admin/demands/ideas, the more difficult it becomes, the faster the burnout.

nanna8

Our first year out teachers earn around $75,000 pa. - around £38,000. Pretty dire but not as dire as yours! They deserve every last cent.

I wouldn’t call that ‘dire’ for a starting-out post.

Some Australian teachers I have met here tell how they ‘survived’ a year teaching in uk state schools. They were horrified at the behaviour of the students. And we think we’ve got problems …
I sense there is more parental interference here but I can’t back that up, just a sense.

I did 36 years and loved it! However, I went to teacher training college so was taught how to teach !!
Then they introduced the national curriculum which was a nightmare for staff and students! Along came SATS and league tables so stress levels rose ! Successive governments have interfered excessively to the detriment of students hence the rubbish behaviour , negative attitudes and sometimes total switch off!!

My DGC must be lucky. They are happy at school and get wonderful reports.
My 6yr old adores her teacher and has been following her pregnancy with great interest. She ofcourse will have a new teacher this week.

However 35 years ago, I was at A&E with my DS who had a minor injury. Sitting opposite us was a male primary school teacher with a nasty head wound. He had been beaten up by the older brother of a pupil whom he had reprimanded.

Two of my nephews and a cousin have gone into teaching from other careers, taking lower pay. One told me his previous job as an editor was dull. He's now teaching in a massive secondary school in a deprived area. It certainly isn't dull.

Our first year out teachers earn around $75,000 pa. - around £38,000. Pretty dire but not as dire as yours! They deserve every last cent.

That starting salary is quite new and now teachers have to complete (effectively) two years as NQT (newly qualified teachers) but are not called NQT any more but ECT (early career teachers!).

So not put on main pay scales now til two years after they’ve qualified!

My daughter is about to enter her 4th year of Primary Teaching, in her first year after graduating she worked for 1 year in an early years nursery setting, then started as an NQT on £26,000, not a great starting salary for a graduate, her younger sister earns more as a CS, with just A levels.