Teachers leaving the profession

The influx of special educational needs pupils into mainstream is another factor. More and more badly disabled children are surviving at the same time as many good Special Schools are closing, and Mary Warnock's battle cry, 'all teachers are special needs teachers' was completely unfair, as she later admitted.

Well said.
This is a huge problem.

Callistemon213

Greyduster

There are all manner of problems related to education these days. The number of pupils in inner city schools that don’t have a firm grasp of the English language, and who have no culture of education - in fact, are in post 11 education and have never been to school. There is very little support for teachers in situations like this where pupils can be bored and disruptive. If you spend half your working day trying to settle a class down so that learning can take place, it’s no wonder teachers are leaving in droves. Large classes, a horrendous work load and not enough support from parents. A recipe for disaster. Of course, if you are lucky enough to get a job in a school in the right catchment area, you will experience very few of these problems. It’s very much a two tier system.

I don't think that's necessarily true.
Nice little village schools only need one family of feral children to join and it can disrupt the whole school.

Not able to accept what the poster says. How typical of a head buried, ignoring the obvious.
One"feral child" in a village school, disgusting language, thank goodness we still have them, is easily much better managed, the fact being the parents will be known to the teachers, and more likely to respond . Village school educated, as have been my GC.

Callistemon213

^The influx of special educational needs pupils into mainstream is another factor. More and more badly disabled children are surviving at the same time as many good Special Schools are closing, and Mary Warnock's battle cry, 'all teachers are special needs teachers' was completely unfair, as she later admitted.^

Well said.
This is a huge problem.

It is a huge problem and one that has sneaked in through the back door.
In 1997 I was sent a child with SEND, accompanied by the adult who had been supporting her at the special school she attended.
Even back then, she needed almost full time support because previously uncontrolled epilepsy meant she had missed so much schooling and she sometimes needed extra care.
The support dwindled, first to mornings, then to a Monday and Friday morning
and finally to nothing.
Gradually, more children with problems were “integrated” from special schools into mainstream, without the support they had previously had.
NB Full time TAs did not exist at our school back then.
Then add to that, children, usually boys with EBD who could disrupt even the calmest class.
Funnily enough, back then, the parents were in general more supportive and less
“I can’t believe you’re saying that about my little treasure!”
There are a lot more support staff now, but there are also a lot more labels, either in existence or being asked for and a SENDCo is a full time job, along with pastoral care.

As a former Primary postgraduate teacher, I beg to differ eazybee.

I brought a range of skills and experise to my school, that were never taught at teacher training college.

As a specialist I wrote programmes of work for the L.A., delivered inservice courses to other teachers in the Authority, who lacked the skills and knowledge of my subjects and was a designated IT mentor for the Education Dept.

I won't waste your time and mine listing the benefits that post grad teachers can bring to the profession.

There is a place for both in schools.

Doodledog

I assume that means that money will be provided to employ more. There are lots of people trained to teach, but not enough in schools' budgets to take them on.

I suspect many trained to teach are being taken on at Catholic Schools (or ? other religions). Our GC/GGC are taught by wonderful teachers in a lovely pleasant environment - as it should be for all children.

LOUISA1523

Cadeby

Does Anybody remember Every Child Matters? Apparently not if they are feral and turn up at a village school.

How long have you been teaching?

Its an old un but a good un.

Callistemon213

Cadeby

Does Anybody remember Every Child Matters? Apparently not if they are feral and turn up at a village school.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean or who it was aimed at.

However, when one child (and some of their siblings too) go to the local school near where they live but then disrupt the whole school, terrifying other children, attacking teachers, destroying equipment so teachers are unable to teach, pupils unable to learn then clearly something is wrong.
If staff then decide to leave because they just cannot teach then the school is the poorer for it and the children lose their teachers.

Nobody is aiming anything ?

It just occurs to me that" feral" is a horrible way to describe a child and a family.

If a highly skilled professional can't intergrate one newcomer into the village school, perhaps all is not well.

My brother taught in HE college, he did not like it at all and left to become an expert witness in the same field. His skills are very valued now, he is sought after and appears in court, also sometimes on tv.

Yes I remember ECM. It started after the murder of Victoria Climbié.
Teachers, support staff, social workers working more closely with CAHMS.

What I remember most about it is SHEEP.

Freya5

Callistemon213

Greyduster

There are all manner of problems related to education these days. The number of pupils in inner city schools that don’t have a firm grasp of the English language, and who have no culture of education - in fact, are in post 11 education and have never been to school. There is very little support for teachers in situations like this where pupils can be bored and disruptive. If you spend half your working day trying to settle a class down so that learning can take place, it’s no wonder teachers are leaving in droves. Large classes, a horrendous work load and not enough support from parents. A recipe for disaster. Of course, if you are lucky enough to get a job in a school in the right catchment area, you will experience very few of these problems. It’s very much a two tier system.

I don't think that's necessarily true.
Nice little village schools only need one family of feral children to join and it can disrupt the whole school.

Not able to accept what the poster says. How typical of a head buried, ignoring the obvious.
One"feral child" in a village school, disgusting language, thank goodness we still have them, is easily much better managed, the fact being the parents will be known to the teachers, and more likely to respond . Village school educated, as have been my GC.

I don't quite understand your post, sorry, Freya5 but 🤔 are you saying a feral child from a family of such disruptive children regularly running amok is easily dealt with in a small school?

Perhaps you have some advice I could pass on.

Cadeby

Callistemon213

Cadeby

Does Anybody remember Every Child Matters? Apparently not if they are feral and turn up at a village school.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean or who it was aimed at.

However, when one child (and some of their siblings too) go to the local school near where they live but then disrupt the whole school, terrifying other children, attacking teachers, destroying equipment so teachers are unable to teach, pupils unable to learn then clearly something is wrong.
If staff then decide to leave because they just cannot teach then the school is the poorer for it and the children lose their teachers.

Nobody is aiming anything ?

It just occurs to me that" feral" is a horrible way to describe a child and a family.

If a highly skilled professional can't intergrate one newcomer into the village school, perhaps all is not well.

feral wild, fierce, and uncontrolled

It's an Aussie expression,

One of several in a family.
As you have not told us that you are not or were not a teacher, I would take it you really do not understand.

Anyway, broke my resolution so I'll refrain from engaging with you 😁

Yes ‘feral’ is a term used from time to time here. Often in relation to street kids or kids with very little parental support who go round vandalising, stealing cars, stabbing people . Of course you could say they were misunderstood and that the teachers need to include them and those who have never taught in schools with these kids probably would. Ignorance is bliss. Teachers are not social workers.

nanna8

Yes ‘feral’ is a term used from time to time here. Often in relation to street kids or kids with very little parental support who go round vandalising, stealing cars, stabbing people . Of course you could say they were misunderstood and that the teachers need to include them and those who have never taught in schools with these kids probably would. Ignorance is bliss. Teachers are not social workers.

Thanks nanna8!

nanna8

Yes ‘feral’ is a term used from time to time here. Often in relation to street kids or kids with very little parental support who go round vandalising, stealing cars, stabbing people . Of course you could say they were misunderstood and that the teachers need to include them and those who have never taught in schools with these kids probably would. Ignorance is bliss. Teachers are not social workers.

I agree, we have plenty of them here in the uk and people who think otherwise are in cloud cuckoo land, too many children are dragged up by parent [s] who have no idea how to parent.

We have always had some children who have had the potential to become feral but years ago children and parents, were supported by whole communities, especially in villages and the local bobby had some clout. Fabric of society has become eroded and hence there are more feral children from feral families and so the cycle continues

I don`t see why it is teachers who are expected to deal with this, their main job is to teach and prepare children for jobs and further education. They are not nappy changers nor potty trainers

Lazy entitled parents are breeding more and more ferals

My grandchildren live in semi rural Co Durham - not wealthy areas tho pockets of better off. Children go/went to a happy and well organised village school, very special needs GD to an excellent special school, and the secondary school children learn with a long standing staff who are on top of the discipline situation.
Think its time to balance the overall gloom and doom of this thread - I'm not denying there are problems but many children do well and flourish.

^ and the secondary school children learn with a long standing staff who are on top of the discipline situation^

The very first OFSTED we had, criticised the school for having a long standing staff (I’d been there 2 1/2 years) and for too few staff providing before/after school activities.
The staff were happy, good at their jobs and the children achieved good results.

Even back then, that wasn’t enough.

I have so many reservations about OFSTED mollygo as well as over frequent SATS all making teachers' lives more difficult.

I think feral is an awful word to describe a child, regardless.

The wages are OK starting salary £30,000.00. not bad for a 21 year old.

mabon1

The wages are OK starting salary £30,000.00. not bad for a 21 year old.

Which makes it surprising that teachers are leaving the profession.

MissAdventure

I think feral is an awful word to describe a child, regardless.

Think what you like but the dictionary definition is:

adjective [usually ADJECTIVE noun]
If you describe something or someone as feral, you mean that they seem wild, fierce, and uncontrolled.

Wild, fierce and uncontrolled seems very apt.

Wild, fierce and uncontrolled seems very apt.
Anyone else noticed a change in the names of badly behaved children?
When I started teaching, it was Gary or Garry, then it was Liam, and now it seems to be Luca.
That doesn’t mean they’re all like that, but the year I had 2 Liams, 38 children and no TA stands out in my memory as a challenging class.

So if it’s not the salary, what does make many teachers leave the profession in the first five years manon?

I know, but clearly you don’t, so I’m interested to hear what you think is the reason.

😁 I know a lovely Liam!