Teachers leaving the profession

I fully understand why teaches are leaving, ditto doctors, police, etc. public behaviour, and a sense of entitlement is very bad and truly sad.
DS is still teaching, but he works for the franchise of “United World Colleges” (like Atlantic College in Wales).
The students are years 12-13 and come from some 80 countries. They are very focussed, many on scholarships, most from very deprived backgrounds, some refugees. They are generally less ghastly, needy or entitled than many these days. He has been pushed into administration, which he loathes, and is considering getting a teaching job in yet another of those schools.

Aldom

A friend of ours resigned from teaching thirty years ago (Head of department, German) because of the bad behaviour of the pupils.

That is interesting to hear because 30 years ago things weren't so bad and German was not one of the more challenging subjects. I can't say I blame them and hope they had a happy life. I dread to think what it must be like now being a teacher especially in certain areas with certain subjects and the challenges of certain types of pupils and certain class sizes. Who wants to go to university and spend four years training to be treated like some object of ridicule? And, then spend the many hours preparing lessons which could be destroyed by some challenging pupils?

I think you have a good point there, keepingquiet. It was bad enough in HE, where pressures are different but some of this applies, but (speaking from experience of friends and family in teaching), schools are a lot worse.

I’m generalising because there is no alternative, but I think that part of the problem is that people are often promoted when they have few management skills. They might be excellent at subject knowledge and very willing to take on extra responsibilities, but that doesn’t mean that they are able to bring out the best in others. It doesn’t always mean that they want to either, when success can be based on ‘dead man’s shoes’ and promotion is in the gift of colleagues who are looking out for their own careers.

Then there is the pay structure, which means that people who have been there for years get paid a lot more than new starters. This rightly rewards experience, but can lead to some well-paid people resting on their laurels on one hand, and on the other a desire to get rid of experienced people to bring in cheaper ones in higher numbers, neither of which is good for either efficiency or morale. The same things can block opportunities for experienced teachers to move schools, too. Whereas they would bring in new ideas, they are expensive and a possible threat to people on the interview panel.

Then there is government interference, with ministers who have no experience of teaching bringing in measures on a ‘one size fits all’ basis, and reducing the right of teachers to make professional judgments.

I can’t really speak about behaviour and classroom discipline, but can imagine it must be soul-destroying to have to try to teach if you don’t have the backing of a supportive SMT.

Then there’s the commonly held perception that anyone who’s been to school could do the job, and that it’s 9.00-3.00 with months of holiday . That perception applies to HE too, and it’s a long way from the truth.

I don’t know the answers, as if my generalisations are true (which they may not be) they are a mixture of both centralised control on one hand and the opposite of that (devolution?) on the other.

It’s awful, isn’t it ? What sometimes happens here is those teaching in the state schools move across to the private schools which have less of a discipline problem, mainly because difficult pupils are asked to leave. Then they wonder why private schools come out top in the exams etc. The thing with private schools is that there is a lot more parental input or even ‘interference’ which is another issue not helping the situation. If kids are naughty or not achieving- blame the teachers seems to be the way.

The reality for my dgd was 60 in her science class. I have teachers in my family, they are superb science teachers and are beyond stressed for all those reasons nanna8.

None of my dgc will be teachers and schools will continue to employ the cheapest, inexperienced people who cannot get an alternative job and meanwhile the older time-served dedicated experienced teachers are actively looking for employment out of education. The new young teachers mostly only last a couple of years, if that

Teaching has never been up there with other professions. I went into teaching as a mature graduate and found it very hard indeed, although I also loved it.
What made it difficult for me was not the behaviour of the students though I worked in some very 'challenging' schools, but the lack of support from the other staff.
Even in departments the levels of bitchiness and sheer bullying were off the scale.
I really do think those who had gone straight to college and then back into the classroom had never really left the playground themselves.
For me the whole way teachers are trained needs a good shake up- they need to learn how to be supportive of each other and not competitive, especially when it comes to Ofsted and exam results.
I stuck it out and finally found work in a role that suited me away from other teachers!

No teachers in my family, but I think all your points except probably number 3 are relevant here as well.

No different to many jobs nowadays though. Being a nurse, doctor, police officer, dentist, clergyman, bank clerk…

No jobs seem to be what they were. Not very enjoyable, full of stress, ‘can’t wait to retire’.

Sad state of affairs.

A friend of ours resigned from teaching thirty years ago (Head of department, German) because of the bad behaviour of the pupils.