School Bombed in Gaza

If Israel collapses, it will be entirely down to Netanyahu

Genocide, yes, Hamas has caused the death of 40,000 civilians and achieved nothing, still they want more martyrs.
That is a tiny number in the scale of genocide Poland alone lost 5m civilians in WW2 most of them Jews, Stalin probably caused more than that.

Hamas and others are committed to the destruction of Israel they don’t want any kind of ceasefire if they are allowed to win Israel will cease to exist and the Jews will have to leave.

I dont know what the end game is going to be, for now the US will attempt to prevent a large scale war. If that cannot be done and Israel collapses, dont think that will settle conflict because the extremists will attack the moderates, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi and probably Turkey.

I meant to add that it is the one the Holocaust museum uses.

Wyllow3

The Holocaust Memorial Day Trust has a definition of Genocide which although it includes killing gives a list of the features of genocide which operate over time.

www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/

The definition I have given is one that most of the countries in the world have signed up to and is held by the UN.

It is the one that’s the ICJ uses

Whitewavemark2

Genocide

I’m afraid I agree.

I do not hold any Israeli’s responsible for this though.

I hold Hamas and the Israeli govt both equally responsible for these continued atrocities and what on earth did the Israeli PM think he’d achieve killing a Hamas leader in another country? Just involving some new area in this war!

Sad times

The Holocaust Memorial Day Trust has a definition of Genocide which although it includes killing gives a list of the features of genocide which operate over time.

www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/

Rekarie

It's not genocide. Why do we keep using words that don't fit the situation

If Israel. Had wanted to commit genocide they could have done so in a couple of days.

If you read the definition, I think that you will fed that Israel fits the model very well.

Where does Netanyahu hope to go with Gaza?

You can target military bases, and that has been done, but you cant stop individuals or small groups.

Gaza is mostly in ruins and people have such limited access to clean water and food that they have no hopes of anything resembling an ordinary life with jobs, schools and so on.

The suffering goes on and Netanyahu has no road map except wiping out yet more of the population and infrastructure.

Of course they could have, by just bombing Gaza to cinders and it would have been done very quickly.
They have been trying to get only hamas and their enablers which is a really difficult thing to do.All wars are awful in their human toll and women and children always suffer the most.
They have made mistakes, as in all wars too.
What hamas did last October in a well planned operation of astounding barbarism has brought this war down on Gazan heads.

It's not genocide. Why do we keep using words that don't fit the situation

If Israel. Had wanted to commit genocide they could have done so in a couple of days.

correct, 'a lot of governments' in paragraph 2'

There is a lot of opposition within Israel as regards the conduct of events in Gaza, it's reported regularly in the Jerusalem Post.

a lot of movements support the establishment of a State of Israel, the much vaunted Two State Solution" and have done for a very long time.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine#:~:text=Among%20the%20G20%2C%20nine%20countries,the%20United%20Kingdom%2C%20and%20the

Most governments fall short of supporting the Palestinians as Hamas are recognised as terrorists but do give very substantial amounts in terms of aid for Gazan citizens.

A tendency to call for 2 state solutions. I doubt whether many governments are really happy with the current Israeli regime as there is no "end plan" for Gaza or any recognisable intention to end the war there and rebuild, but its such a hot political issue that hands get wrung and not much done.

It seems that while politicians support the stance of Israel by far and large the general population doesn't. We're watching genocide committed in real time and a lot of governments are supporting it. Unfathomable.

David49

Cadeby

JenniferEccles

The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas some years ago, and although we don’t know just how much support there still is for them, we can assume quite a lot.

There has certainly been evidence of widespread hatred of Jewish people, so much so that this war is about the very survival of Israelis, which is why the destruction of the Hamas regime is an absolute top priority.

Which other parties were available for them to vote for please?

The other party in the last election was Fateh, Hamas murdered them all and Gaza became a dictatorship, committed to the destruction of Israel, no other purpose.
Just like Germany under Hitler or China under Mao opposing them brought swift action, there will be no peace until Hamas is eliminated in Gaza.
This conflict is going to get worse before it gets better, Israel is now fighting on 4 fronts a large scale attack could overwhelm its defenses, the US and others would then step in on a large scale to prevent Israel making a nuclear strike.

David, there is so much misinformation and speculation in there I wonder if you are aware of the complex conflicts and history of Gaza - and the whole region which predated the formation of the State of Israel in 1948. (and the failure to define a Palestinian State at the same time)

On a previous thread on this topic I found this article very helpful as to the reality of conflict in the area and what happened to the Palestinian peoples after 1948, (mass refugee camps from the start in Egypt and Jordan) and previous peace attempts.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-44124396

petra

Cadeby

Perhaps Jennifer can update us with her take on things?

"On the face of it"

maybe some specialist knowledge at play here.

It means exactly what it says on the tin.
without knowledge, all the relevant facts, apparently
I’m assuming that JenniferEccles took it as written that you would know what the expression means, most would.

On the face of it:

You say on the face of it when you are describing how something seems when it is first considered, in order to suggest that people's opinion may change when they know or think more about the subject.
Collins English Dictionary

Cadeby

Perhaps Jennifer can update us with her take on things?

"On the face of it"

maybe some specialist knowledge at play here.

It means exactly what it says on the tin.
without knowledge, all the relevant facts, apparently
I’m assuming that JenniferEccles took it as written that you would know what the expression means, most would.

Cadeby

JenniferEccles

The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas some years ago, and although we don’t know just how much support there still is for them, we can assume quite a lot.

There has certainly been evidence of widespread hatred of Jewish people, so much so that this war is about the very survival of Israelis, which is why the destruction of the Hamas regime is an absolute top priority.

Which other parties were available for them to vote for please?

The other party in the last election was Fateh, Hamas murdered them all and Gaza became a dictatorship, committed to the destruction of Israel, no other purpose.
Just like Germany under Hitler or China under Mao opposing them brought swift action, there will be no peace until Hamas is eliminated in Gaza.
This conflict is going to get worse before it gets better, Israel is now fighting on 4 fronts a large scale attack could overwhelm its defenses, the US and others would then step in on a large scale to prevent Israel making a nuclear strike.

They cannot destroy Hamas, and trying to do so could take decades, a protracted war which will escalate further. For every Hamas operative killed don't you suppose that young men who have seen their families decimated will now take up arms, young men who otherwise might never have had such feelings of hostility?

I think you’re right about the young men taking up arms because they’ve seen their families decimated.
That’s what happened to start this.

How can it end?

JenniferEccles

The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas some years ago, and although we don’t know just how much support there still is for them, we can assume quite a lot.

There has certainly been evidence of widespread hatred of Jewish people, so much so that this war is about the very survival of Israelis, which is why the destruction of the Hamas regime is an absolute top priority.

They cannot destroy Hamas, and trying to do so could take decades, a protracted war which will escalate further. For every Hamas operative killed don't you suppose that young men who have seen their families decimated will now take up arms, young men who otherwise might never have had such feelings of hostility?
What Netanyahu is doing is creating more hatred of Israel in the region and more danger for ordinary innocent Israelis.
Not sure how you think it will ensure the survival of Israelis, quite frankly if I lived in Tel Aviv and had to hide in a safe room and keep guns at hand, I would not congratulate my leader for keeping me safe by annhilating innocent Palestinians and so ensuring that militarised enemies become stronger.
Hate doesn't reduce when your enemy commits genocide.
And an increasing number of Israelis are joining the dots and opposing Netanyahu.
Though obvs you know better.

JenniferEccles

The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas some years ago, and although we don’t know just how much support there still is for them, we can assume quite a lot.

There has certainly been evidence of widespread hatred of Jewish people, so much so that this war is about the very survival of Israelis, which is why the destruction of the Hamas regime is an absolute top priority.

Don’t be fooled! This is simply extension of the troubles going on for decades.

It’s about land.

Hammas and Netunyahu are as bad as each other.

Note; just these two, I condemn both Hammas and the current Israeli, I do not condemn Jewish people or the people of Gaza. I especially shed a tear for children both sides of the border

Perhaps Jennifer can update us with her take on things?

"On the face of it"

maybe some specialist knowledge at play here.

ronib

There’s no earthly reason for Israel to bomb a school and a mosque if it’s not housing Hamas.

I agree and it’s despicable

Netanyahu pressured the knesset to back Hamas back in the day, wanting to use this to split Gaza from the West Bank.
There is no doubt that he wants to oust Palestinians and always has, this predates the terrible terrorist attacks on Israelis last year, indeed the persecution and killing of Palestinians as well as aid workers and journalists goes back many years.
Just to get things in context.

we can assume quite a lot

We can assume they were terified to do otherwise.

wake up.

JenniferEccles

The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas some years ago, and although we don’t know just how much support there still is for them, we can assume quite a lot.

There has certainly been evidence of widespread hatred of Jewish people, so much so that this war is about the very survival of Israelis, which is why the destruction of the Hamas regime is an absolute top priority.

Which other parties were available for them to vote for please?