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These lengthy prison sentences for rioters

(287 Posts)
winterwhite Sun 11-Aug-24 20:03:25

Apologies if there has been a thread on this already.
I fear that prison sentences of several years for young men with no previous record will do no good to them or their communities. The inadequacies of training or rehab in prisons has been gone over again and again. Meanwhile, many of the men will have families / young children who could fall into poverty, and how will the men themselves find work when they are released.
I would rather see sentences of 6-12 months while a task force is established to identify needed community work to which they could be bussed each weekend while working at home during the week to minimise family breakup.
Something like that strikes me as preferable to doing nothing in prison for years on end.

Mollygo Wed 14-Aug-24 13:41:32

nanna8

Funny- I always get searched at airports, every single time. Funny- I very often get asked where I come from.
I often wonder why ( seriously !) I detest airports and that is one of the reasons. I never thought it was to do with my colour but maybe it is.

I get searched at airports, though not
every time., but at least I don’t have to worry about whether it’s my colour.
A student friend (of colour) once said that one of the worst things was she never knew how her greeting would be received when speaking to someone new.

nanna8 Wed 14-Aug-24 13:45:14

Most airports I go to are Asian or South Pacific ones. White people are a minority so maybe that is why we get searched ! I never thought of that but it could well be. Can’t trust the white devils.

Wyllow3 Wed 14-Aug-24 13:51:47

Mollygo

nanna8

Funny- I always get searched at airports, every single time. Funny- I very often get asked where I come from.
I often wonder why ( seriously !) I detest airports and that is one of the reasons. I never thought it was to do with my colour but maybe it is.

I get searched at airports, though not
every time., but at least I don’t have to worry about whether it’s my colour.
A student friend (of colour) once said that one of the worst things was she never knew how her greeting would be received when speaking to someone new.

Very true.

"was she never knew how her greeting would be received when speaking to someone new".

That reminds me of a simple event at the supermarket. A lady with a head scarf was in with a couple of boys, and they were happy and chatty and I thought, "oh, I hope that lasts for them, they won't grow up in fear".

Quokka Wed 14-Aug-24 13:53:37

nanna8

That is what I would worry about. Many will come out of jail full of resentment and hatred of the government. I doubt many will change their views if all they get is a custodial sentence with no counselling or discussion. That is too hard for the authorities to work out,though. .

They probably will not change their views but they may well change their behaviour and think twice about taking part in mob violence.

nanaK54 Wed 14-Aug-24 13:56:20

Quokka

nanna8

That is what I would worry about. Many will come out of jail full of resentment and hatred of the government. I doubt many will change their views if all they get is a custodial sentence with no counselling or discussion. That is too hard for the authorities to work out,though. .

They probably will not change their views but they may well change their behaviour and think twice about taking part in mob violence.

Very well said Quokka
Hopefully their sentences will deter others too

Quokka Wed 14-Aug-24 14:02:59

Thank you nanaK

Iam64 Thu 15-Aug-24 08:48:49

nanaK54

Quokka

nanna8

That is what I would worry about. Many will come out of jail full of resentment and hatred of the government. I doubt many will change their views if all they get is a custodial sentence with no counselling or discussion. That is too hard for the authorities to work out,though. .

They probably will not change their views but they may well change their behaviour and think twice about taking part in mob violence.

Very well said Quokka
Hopefully their sentences will deter others too

nanna8 - I’m confident Starmer fully understands your point about custodial sentences. He’s also facing an over crowded prison population alongside the devastation of the Probation Service. In addition drug/alcohol/mental health services demolished by the previous governments nonsense austerity programme.
We have sent far too many people to prison and destroyed or failed to develop alternatives to custody. That’s the situation the government inherited in July so there’s a lot of work to do.
Despite pressure on Courts and prisons, I’m relieved the rioters are being dealt with quickly and severely. Many of them have criminal records for relevant offences

nanna8 Thu 15-Aug-24 09:54:59

Wouldn’t it be a help if they at least received some sort of counselling in prison? If you have a skilful counsellor it can be very effective. Certainly better than just locking them up for a couple of years and letting them out with nothing. It’s a no brainer, really.

OldFrill Thu 15-Aug-24 11:59:09

nanna8

Wouldn’t it be a help if they at least received some sort of counselling in prison? If you have a skilful counsellor it can be very effective. Certainly better than just locking them up for a couple of years and letting them out with nothing. It’s a no brainer, really.

So long as they wait the same amount of time as everyone else who is waiting for counselling, in which case most would be out

Doodledog Thu 15-Aug-24 15:24:35

OldFrill

nanna8

Wouldn’t it be a help if they at least received some sort of counselling in prison? If you have a skilful counsellor it can be very effective. Certainly better than just locking them up for a couple of years and letting them out with nothing. It’s a no brainer, really.

So long as they wait the same amount of time as everyone else who is waiting for counselling, in which case most would be out

Yes, I agree.

It's always difficult to prioritise shared resources without encouraging people to access them via bad behaviour. What would those who complain about 'two tier' society have to say about that?

David49 Thu 15-Aug-24 17:39:11

It’s not uncommon for a prison sentence for a first offence if it’s violence, with video of the offence there is no defence, violent rioting is even worse,

harrigran Fri 16-Aug-24 09:20:08

The woman from my town, who received a 2.5 year sentence, was not a first time offender. She was out on licence after having attacked a lady " for being gay " 😡

Chocolatelovinggran Fri 16-Aug-24 12:23:54

Oh harrigran, she sounds just charming.
Your town is safer without her on the streets, I think.

MayBee70 Fri 16-Aug-24 12:51:08

harrigran

The woman from my town, who received a 2.5 year sentence, was not a first time offender. She was out on licence after having attacked a lady " for being gay " 😡

Supposedly a lot of the people charged have had previous convictions. And yet they say they were rioting because immigrants were a financial drain on the country.

Doodledog Fri 16-Aug-24 13:03:01

Good point. I'm guessing that the cost of keeping a criminal in jail is higher than keeping a refugee in a basic 'hotel'.

MayBee70 Sat 17-Aug-24 18:01:11

Two racist rioters brilliantly taken apart by their sentencing judge in Plymouth.
John Cann (left) and Ryan Bailey (right) both pleaded guilty to violent disorder and appeared at Plymouth Crown Court for sentencing.
Judge Robert Linford rounded on Cann telling him that according to his police interview he discussed with them "about the better use of taxpayers' money and why people were having to pay to keep these people in this country after committing such heinous crimes."
Judge Linford then launched a stinging rebuke to Cann saying: "So let's look at how the taxpayer have been funding your activities over the last 38 years - let's see what you've cost the country: you've got 10 aliases, four fictitious birth dates, you're 51 years of age, you've been convicted of 170 offences, you been convicted of theft, arson, taking cars, handling stolen goods, obtaining by deception, burglary, dangerous driving and possessing bladed articles.
"In all over the years that you've been visiting the criminal justice system you've received sentences totalling 357 months in prison, many of them concurrent.
"In other words, nearly 30 years. That Mr Cann is what you've been costing this country and you sit there in that interview and saw fit to be critical of others. You have no right whatever to say who should or should not be in this country."
To Bailey, Judge Linford said he had 29 convictions for 39 offences, including theft, criminal damage, possession of drugs, supply of class A drugs, threatening behaviour, breach of a Domestic Violence Protection Order and robbery "and you were chanting with the rest of that rabble about immigration".
"You two were in no position to judge anybody".
Judge Linford accepted the pair had pleaded guilty at the earlier opportunity and handed Cann a three year jail sentence and Bailey a 30 month jail sentence. He said they would serve half before being released on licence.

Apologies if this has already been posted...

MissAdventure Sat 17-Aug-24 18:09:48

A round of applause for that judge!!

Freya5 Sat 17-Aug-24 19:03:18

Casdon

I have reported your post Freya5. Personal insults are completely unnecessary, not to mention mean.

Yet someone gets away with calling me "evil". Glad you're happy with the hypocrisy .

Margs Sat 17-Aug-24 19:46:27

They would have avoided the courts and custodial penalties by behaving themselves and not using the murders of those three children as a blanket excuse to go on looting sprees, throwing in gratuitous violence along the way.

The several mugshots of those convicted hardly lead me to believe they were Brains Trust candidates. A number were reported to be breaking into tears as they were sentenced.

It'll take more than tears to keep them safe in prison......

MayBee70 Sat 17-Aug-24 19:57:01

Freya5

Casdon

I have reported your post Freya5. Personal insults are completely unnecessary, not to mention mean.

Yet someone gets away with calling me "evil". Glad you're happy with the hypocrisy .

Oh c’mon Freya. The comments from you and Oreo had me in tears years yesterday so that’s quite hypocritical.

DillytheGardener Sat 17-Aug-24 20:48:11

You must be joking, the just stop oil received 4 year sentences for a Zoom meeting! These rioters that caused enormous amount of physical damage to both person and properties are measly in comparison.

Wyllow3 Sat 17-Aug-24 20:56:11

Maybee thank you for that brilliant report of what the judge said.

Chocolatelovinggran Sat 17-Aug-24 22:32:24

Good grief Maybee - thirty years of prison time?! I can't begin to calculate the cost.

MayBee70 Sat 17-Aug-24 23:22:47

Well, it’s a lot of chocolate!

veejay Sat 17-Aug-24 23:59:24

I agree that most would not have expected prison sentences, so might make others think twice
I hope it does serve as a deterrent
Someone on X is asking for contributions for one of his friends who has been locked ups family .saying he has mortgage to pay etc,
I do feel for his family but let him sort it out in any way he can
No sympathy from me .more with the ones who have had businesses and property set on fire
Most said no.he should have thought about his family before throwing things at a policeman
Others did send money