Keir Starmer aka Captain Flip Flop

I have said it before, I will see it again, I would see all pensioner concessions go: bus passes, prescriptions, the lot. I would then imcrease the PC level significantly to compensate for what was lost. Everyone caan get prescription season tickets. Bus companies will offer pensioner travel cards, just as British rail does.

These bells and whistles are demeaning. They say that pensioners are too old and soft in the head to make sensible decisions about budgeting so we will ring fence their prescriptions, so that is all the money is spent on that - and nothing else - and we will ensure that they can always get a bus to town. meanwhile those of us who cannot travel by bus for various reasons or are not ill enough to need medical prescriptions lose out.

Galaxy

Can people on here tell us how many times you have to post on GN before you are allowed to express a view. Are there rules I am not aware of.

Yes Galaxy, you are not allowed to criticise the new government at all. Follow that rule and you’ll be okay.

I have seen posts by TheHappyGardener before, but not regularly. How she must be feeling after that onslaught on the page in reply to her post, I can only guess. Such absolutely nasty responses are uncalled for!

Wyllow3

Lots of us in the Labour Party think that the WFP "bar" has been set too low and are doing something about it, but that a universal benefit is going to many who don't need it.

Scaremongering about "now they'll do this and that" is all speculation.

I find the headline for this thread entirely disingenuous: if you want to talk about WFA do so, but repeating right wing memes, what else do you expect - its simply inflammatory and was designed to be so.

Agreed.

I am so tired of cliches and unoriginal memes and jibes. Why can't people speak for themselves instead of trotting out 'witticisms' devised by others? We've all heard the dog whistles so often before that they switch people off before they've read the rest of the post.

Also, given the recent result of people spreading things on social media, asking people to spread a FB post 'far and wide' wasn't going to end well.

Regardless, I hope nobody leaves.

Mollygo

How does anyone excuse or reject the fact that Starmer is actually describing the hardship this will cause to many-not a paper report, but Starmer actually saying it wherever it was copied from?

Again, on X Starmer is seen and heard asking Sunak to agree that he won’t remove the winter fuel payment.

I suppose you could argue that Starmer didn’t, it was a member of his cabinet.

We’ve only heard part A of the plan, aka the removal of the universal benefit. There will be a part B.

Do you disagree with the removal of WFP from those who can afford to pay for fuel, or just from those who can’t?

GrannyGravy13

Oreo 👏👏👏

I will not forgive RR and the PM for this cruel act.

Neither will I.

Pensioners are an easy target because there is no aggressive union to fight their cause. A petition set up by Age UK will just be ignored.

Imagine if ALL grandparents up and down the land withdrew their free childcare in protest. Public services like the NHS would be in chaos because the ‘little people’ who can’t afford expensive childcare wouldn’t be able to get to work and they are vital cogs in the wheel.

Of course it will never happen and the government knows that.

How does anyone excuse or reject the fact that Starmer is actually describing the hardship this will cause to many-not a paper report, but Starmer actually saying it wherever it was copied from?

Again, on X Starmer is seen and heard asking Sunak to agree that he won’t remove the winter fuel payment.

I suppose you could argue that Starmer didn’t, it was a member of his cabinet.

Oreo

nightowl

I agree it’s not fair to continue the jibe coined by Johnson, but it’s hardly worth getting in a state about. I’m sure he’s been called worse, and I’m a Labour supporter.

Exactly what I feel.

You’ve done nothing but knock Labour ever since they came to power Oreo…

I think the October statement will be the one to watch - loosing the WFA is just to reinforce who is in charge - and it’s definitely not the average person…..

nightowl

I agree it’s not fair to continue the jibe coined by Johnson, but it’s hardly worth getting in a state about. I’m sure he’s been called worse, and I’m a Labour supporter.

Exactly what I feel.

Elegran

Yes, it was designed to be inflammatory. I think she assumed that a social media site full of older people would all automatically join in with rubbishing Starmer totally for that one plank in the many he is using in trying to build an ark for the country to survive the flood. Gransnet is more diverse than that.

It was a reasonable and valid OP and something we’re all talking about, it’s just the Captain Flip Flop title that some object to.
He actually is flip flopping on the WFA matter as not long ago he was criticising the tories on this.
I don’t for one minute suppose that the OP thought everyone would agree with her but didn’t expect to be met with such hostility.

Baggs

Babs03

TheHappyGardener

www.facebook.com/share/r/exvmifyEty7nktay/?mibextid=UalRPS

(Apologies to those who don’t have FB and can’t see the content - I couldn’t work out another way of copying the video)
I think anyone who, like me, feels aggrieved by Labour’s decision on the pensioners’ winter fuel payment should share this video far and wide on social media - maybe it can force a discussion at Prime Minister’s Question Time??

A Torygraph reader I imagine.
There will be winter fuel payments, but targeted at pensioners who need it, we have friends who have private pensions that mean they are so well off they can’t even spend a fraction of their money before they die. And yet they got the winter fuel payments.
We did too and though by no means well off gave a bit to our grown families to help them pay the bills.
Why give money to a whole section of society without figuring out who needs it.

This used to be the argument with respect to family allowance. Some people didn't need it so they shouldn't get it.

One riposte I heard several times was that it would be more expensive to work out who needed it and who didn't than just to give it to all mothers. I'm talking history here! But I imagine the same argument could be made now with regard to sorting out who actually needs the winter fuel allowance and who doesn't.

Also, people's circumstances change. One might not need it upon retirement but then one might need it a few years on.

Such arguments are worth considering.

I think what you describe was the original reasoning for pension credit Baggs, so that nobody who was left below the poverty line. It’s not worked as well as it could have done if so many people for various reasons, aren’t claiming what they are entitled to, and there must be a big effort to change that. If the level is raised it will obviously lift more people out of the poverty trap too. That’s what I’m hoping will happen over the next few months.

I agree it’s not fair to continue the jibe coined by Johnson, but it’s hardly worth getting in a state about. I’m sure he’s been called worse, and I’m a Labour supporter.

GrannyGravy13

I hadn’t realised that criticism of this PM was not permissible.

Obviously it is only permissible to criticise and name call Conservatives.

Now I understand this unwritten GN rule, I will consider my own membership of GN…

Don't leave GG! GN needs voices like yours.

nanna8 “the animated budgie” - what on earth are you talking about🤷‍♀️

Babs03

TheHappyGardener

www.facebook.com/share/r/exvmifyEty7nktay/?mibextid=UalRPS

(Apologies to those who don’t have FB and can’t see the content - I couldn’t work out another way of copying the video)
I think anyone who, like me, feels aggrieved by Labour’s decision on the pensioners’ winter fuel payment should share this video far and wide on social media - maybe it can force a discussion at Prime Minister’s Question Time??

A Torygraph reader I imagine.
There will be winter fuel payments, but targeted at pensioners who need it, we have friends who have private pensions that mean they are so well off they can’t even spend a fraction of their money before they die. And yet they got the winter fuel payments.
We did too and though by no means well off gave a bit to our grown families to help them pay the bills.
Why give money to a whole section of society without figuring out who needs it.

This used to be the argument with respect to family allowance. Some people didn't need it so they shouldn't get it.

One riposte I heard several times was that it would be more expensive to work out who needed it and who didn't than just to give it to all mothers. I'm talking history here! But I imagine the same argument could be made now with regard to sorting out who actually needs the winter fuel allowance and who doesn't.

Also, people's circumstances change. One might not need it upon retirement but then one might need it a few years on.

Such arguments are worth considering.

Yes, it was designed to be inflammatory. I think she assumed that a social media site full of older people would all automatically join in with rubbishing Starmer totally for that one plank in the many he is using in trying to build an ark for the country to survive the flood. Gransnet is more diverse than that.

GrannyGravy13

I hadn’t realised that criticism of this PM was not permissible.

Obviously it is only permissible to criticise and name call Conservatives.

Now I understand this unwritten GN rule, I will consider my own membership of GN…

Don't do that, your opinion is very important it puts a different POV.
People will always think differently, and there is no hierarchy with Gransnet posters.

rafichagran

I don't understand the hostility to the OP either, I sincerely hope she/he comes back.

Gransnet is for everyone, and disagreements are bound to happen. If people leave because of some posters being unpleasant we will be left with the views of the same posters.

I think that’s already happening tbh.😡

MayBee70

I think this is actually me now done with gransnet. If anyone wants to keep in touch please pm me and I’ll give you my email address

Maybee I value your posts greatly, I hope you'll come back.

A normal PM Galaxy who flipflops on policies once in power no matter what he’s said when in opposition and one who will get some things right and others very wrong.
An astute politician will ‘read’ the country and in this case restore the WFA and do something positive to restore faith that he can reduce immigration.

Lots of us in the Labour Party think that the WFP "bar" has been set too low and are doing something about it, but that a universal benefit is going to many who don't need it.

Scaremongering about "now they'll do this and that" is all speculation.

I find the headline for this thread entirely disingenuous: if you want to talk about WFA do so, but repeating right wing memes, what else do you expect - its simply inflammatory and was designed to be so.

Actually, what made me criticise the OP was the tone of gleeful spite, plus the borrowing of BJ's playground jibe.

Had she posted the contents of her later post in the opening post, I would have sympathised with her, and agreed that there needs to be a change to who qualifies for WFA and who doesn't - and perhaps a change to the State pension too.

I don't understand the hostility to the OP either, I sincerely hope she/he comes back.

Gransnet is for everyone, and disagreements are bound to happen. If people leave because of some posters being unpleasant we will be left with the views of the same posters.

I do hope so Elegran, that they see how people feel about withdrawing the WFA and come up with something else, a cut off point which won’t disadvantage millions of pensioners.

I wonder if the actual answer is that he is neither a saint or a villain.