Keir Starmer aka Captain Flip Flop

Mollygo that made me laugh😁
We should all be able to criticise any government, both on here and anywhere else.
I criticise it for the withdrawal of WFA and for the unfair crackdown on some protesters, one 20 year old with no previous shouted and threw a can and was jailed.A few others who did similar the same and jail time for those who said horrible things on SM. It’s more the sort of attitude I would expect from a tory government and am surprised at Labour posters on here who enthusiastically go along with it.
What else? Ah the enormous salary increases for junior doctors and train drivers.Now GP’s will want the same, other train drivers will strike for more pay and it wouldn’t be a shock if the nurses, enraged at their smaller increases consider industrial action.
I expected RR to pour more money into Councils to get better things for us in services but not so far.Have to see if there are goodies in the Autumn budget.

Mollygo

Freya5.
You must not criticise the Labour Party or Starmer.

They have only been in power 4weeks, no 5 weeks, no it’s 6 weeks and part of that time they’ve been on holiday.

You must not attack Starmer for going for pensioners fuel allowance, whilst continuing to spend vast amounts on food in the HoP and allowing MPs their fuel allowance despite them earning well over the cut off point for the level of income pensioners are allowed.

You may hark back to the state of the country thanks to the Conservatives (I don’t disagree about all of that), but you must not hark back to the actions of the previous Labour government, even if they are impacting you now and especially not if they contributed to your need for a WFA.

Just because Starmer said Sunak was wrong to withdraw the WFA to fill in the “black hole” can’t possibly mean that Starmer is wrong to withdraw it for the same black hole.

Is that really how you see it?

I don't at all. Yes, the number of weeks in power keeps moving - a bit like my age - but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

Nobody is saying you must not do anything - people are simply giving their point of view, and those differ, as they always did, and they are subject to snide comments for doing so, as they always are.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to point out that a lot of what is facing the government is a direct result of the policies of the previous one - they only left office six weeks ago - whereas going back decades to criticise people like Gordon Brown is pointless, as he's not even in the cabinet. His policies may still have impact on people today (as I've said, Mr Dog's pension was raided, so we are living with that too), but that doesn't mean that this will happen again under Rachel Reeves. If it does, then I for one will be criticising loud and clear.

Freya5.
You must not criticise the Labour Party or Starmer.

They have only been in power 4weeks, no 5 weeks, no it’s 6 weeks and part of that time they’ve been on holiday.

You must not attack Starmer for going for pensioners fuel allowance, whilst continuing to spend vast amounts on food in the HoP and allowing MPs their fuel allowance despite them earning well over the cut off point for the level of income pensioners are allowed.

You may hark back to the state of the country thanks to the Conservatives (I don’t disagree about all of that), but you must not hark back to the actions of the previous Labour government, even if they are impacting you now and especially not if they contributed to your need for a WFA.

Just because Starmer said Sunak was wrong to withdraw the WFA to fill in the “black hole” can’t possibly mean that Starmer is wrong to withdraw it for the same black hole.

Doodledog

Mollygo

If you are delighted to see rioters imprisoned, what would you have done to accommodate them?
I don’t have to consider that. I’ve already been told on GN that the solution is to release other prisoners early and since that has already been happening for some time, it wasn’t a new strategy, though the range of early may have changed.

You've lost me now

Are you saying you do or don't think that rioters should have been jailed if it meant releasing non-violent offenders to make room for them?

The bigger question is - why are prisons full to capacity, why is the justice system labouring under a backlog of cases?

In fact, why are all our public services grinding towards a halt? Why is the country in the state it is in?

Mollygo

^If you are delighted to see rioters imprisoned, what would you have done to accommodate them?^
I don’t have to consider that. I’ve already been told on GN that the solution is to release other prisoners early and since that has already been happening for some time, it wasn’t a new strategy, though the range of early may have changed.

You've lost me now

Are you saying you do or don't think that rioters should have been jailed if it meant releasing non-violent offenders to make room for them?

Don’t you understand that sensible people change their plans if finances or circumstances change?
I expect you fully understand that but your fixed views won’t allow that to be acknowledged

MayBee70

And how dare you describe the PM with a term coined by a previous PM who was thrown out of parliament for lying

Free speech, until Starmer and Co put a stop on name calling. He has flip flopped, or U turned if you prefer, a term used to bash the Tories, but applies to Labour too. Or as Big Issue states, " the Ming Vase strategy". Never would he stop WFP, he has, charitable status to be removed from private schools, now changed to vat charges, refusing to end two child limit as he had previously stated in a tweet on X in 2020 that Labour would do so, not so now. A plan to remove tuition fees pledged in 2017 and 2019, not so now. Nationalisation, now 9nly for Railways, nothing else.Plenty more but can't be bothered. So you see where the name sprung from.

If you are delighted to see rioters imprisoned, what would you have done to accommodate them?
I don’t have to consider that. I’ve already been told on GN that the solution is to release other prisoners early and since that has already been happening for some time, it wasn’t a new strategy, though the range of early may have changed.

Ilovecheese

Dickens said "Other countries appear to be able to run a robust Capitalist economy and invest in its people. Why can't we?"
I don't know why we can't either. We seem to hold Conservative "handbag economics" as some sort of non negotiable truth. But it is just a theory.
Now this Starmer Government is following the same sort of economics as George Osborne because they think it makes them look tough and sensible, hoping that private enterprise will do their job for them.

We seem to hold Conservative "handbag economics"...

I like that Ilovecheese - handbag economics

I read a comment from an economist some time ago- he said that if the electorate really understood how the economy works, there would be a revolution.

It's in governments' interests isn't it, to make sure we don't.

Six.

The people being released are those who had short sentences for non-violent crimes, so are not being released on a like for like basis.

If you are delighted to see rioters imprisoned, what would you have done to accommodate them?

I didn’t have a time limit for being inspired.

The LP knew what they were up against, shortage of prison places, black holes etc. They’ve been pointing it out for long enough.
Southport and the fall out from that was unexpected.

I’m delighted that they’re imprisoning the rioters, even though I was puzzled about where they were going to put them in view of the claims about the state of the prisons and shortage of places.
Then I was reassured on GN that the easy solution was to simply release existing prisoners early.

I definitely didn’t expect to see what Labour disapproved of in the last government being quickly introduced by themselves within a short time. (How many weeks is it now?)

Oreo

Doodledog

We haven't had the budget yet, and KS has led the government for six weeks or so.

Workplace appraisals and performance reviews are usually annual for a reason. Surely it's sensible to wait until the government has had a year or so before judging them on their performance? At least wait until we've heard the budget before criticising what might (or might not) be announced?

Well, errr, yes and no.
True that they haven’t been in power very long but look at what’s happening so far and it isn’t inspiring.

What hasn't inspired you?

I'm not picking on your posts, but I can't work out what you mean. I understand that people (including me) are unhappy about the withdrawal of the WFP, but we don't know yet what will be announced in the budget that might temper it. What else has happened so far?

I'm not defending KS - I just don't know what he's being accused of doing.

Oreo - you may not be inspired - i hadn’t even considered expecting to be inspired six weeks after the new government took over. I’m still in relief mode that we no longer have to feel anxious that our govt is systematically destroying our public services
They inherited a right mess then Southport and it’s desperate legacy
I’m not expecting to be inspired and will be delighted if that happens

Don’t worry…I’ve asked HQ to ban me. I’m sick of this place….

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Doodledog

We haven't had the budget yet, and KS has led the government for six weeks or so.

Workplace appraisals and performance reviews are usually annual for a reason. Surely it's sensible to wait until the government has had a year or so before judging them on their performance? At least wait until we've heard the budget before criticising what might (or might not) be announced?

Well, errr, yes and no.
True that they haven’t been in power very long but look at what’s happening so far and it isn’t inspiring.

MayBee70

No. I won’t. Don’t you get emotional about things that are affecting your children’s and grandchildren’s futures? And, can I point out that your comment is the sort of comment that can make someone very upset? In fact, the total opposite if Maerions post. We’re still living with the aftermath of Brexit ( which was won using lies and misinformation) so why should I when lies and misinformation are still causing terrible problems. You have no right to tell me how I should feel.

FGS
None of us know what’s going on in each others lives, all we can do on here is react to whatever is posted.
Saying that since the referendum you get emotional and very wound up by political stuff sounds strange when it happened eight years ago! You can’t expect posters to be sympathetic about your view of Brexit.

MaizieD

I just cannot understand why Osborneomics is making a comeback when austerity did huge damage last time round and is responsible for so much of the deterioration of the UK that we are enduring now.

I can't understand how Reeves can be so blinded to its dangers.

Business isn't going to invest where it sees no reward...

We can agree on this

Another shout out for Dickens post

Me memory may be failing me (again) but didn’t Gordon Brown introduce tax credits with the aim of ensuring people in work were never worse off than those on benefits? Forgive me for not asking google - I’m certain posters will correct me if I’m off piste.
My memory is of me, long term Labour voter, raging at the radio. Demanding to know why I, a tax payer not earning a big salary, should subsidise Large employers, like our local supermarkets. Why shouldn’t they pay a living wage I remember asking.
Please, someone tell me I’m mis remembering. If I’m not, curious the conservatives over the lady 14 years didn’t ditch this idea

MayBee 🙏🏽🌼🌸🌻🪻💐🌞

We haven't had the budget yet, and KS has led the government for six weeks or so.

Workplace appraisals and performance reviews are usually annual for a reason. Surely it's sensible to wait until the government has had a year or so before judging them on their performance? At least wait until we've heard the budget before criticising what might (or might not) be announced?

I feel the same MaizieD
She knows that it didn't work, quite the opposite.
Why should private companies invest in a country if the country's own Government doesn't think it is worth doing.

Perhaps he is one of these people who get a reputation for being clever and competent but are actually nothing of the kind.

I just cannot understand why Osborneomics is making a comeback when austerity did huge damage last time round and is responsible for so much of the deterioration of the UK that we are enduring now.

I can't understand how Reeves can be so blinded to its dangers.

Business isn't going to invest where it sees no reward...

Dickens said "Other countries appear to be able to run a robust Capitalist economy and invest in its people. Why can't we?"
I don't know why we can't either. We seem to hold Conservative "handbag economics" as some sort of non negotiable truth. But it is just a theory.
Now this Starmer Government is following the same sort of economics as George Osborne because they think it makes them look tough and sensible, hoping that private enterprise will do their job for them.

Maybee 💐. Tomorrow will be better