Keir Starmer aka Captain Flip Flop

My MP was in tears when Johnson left office. I’m sure she had a crush on him! She also went on to support Truss. Peter Bone ( also discredited) was there, too. He had a rum lot of loyal followers.

Totally agree!

Oh Maybee, my former MP responded to my communications on a similar way.
He had a particular knack of backing the wrong horse.
In his column in the local newspaper, he wrote how misunderstood PM Johnson was, and how we must all rally round to support him. By publication date, Mr Johnson had resigned.
Then his column explained how much the country needed PM Truss and her excellent ideas on the economy. By publication date ......you know the rest.

They all have to defend their Party and rally round the flag😄

MayBee70, you could make a fortune out of those. You wouldn’t need the WFA if you got them published.

I’ve got a drawer full of letters from my last MP telling how Boris Johnson never lied, partygate didn’t happen (because her boss would never lie) and that Cleverly didn’t call Stockton a s******e (‘because he said he didn’t, right’) so she must have been sick of hearing from me too.

MayBee70

Well that’s good that your MP knows how you feel about the withdrawal of the WFP and I would hope that she’ll inform you what plans there are to help people that aren’t quite eligible for pension credit. If not contact her again and point out that she hasn’t actually answered your question and you’re waiting for an answer.

Oh I do and I have.
She’s probably heartily sick of my questions, but she gets paid enough to cope with that.

Well that’s good that your MP knows how you feel about the withdrawal of the WFP and I would hope that she’ll inform you what plans there are to help people that aren’t quite eligible for pension credit. If not contact her again and point out that she hasn’t actually answered your question and you’re waiting for an answer.

I’m further on with this one MayBee70.

As a Labour party member I'll certainly make it clear if I disagree with something they've done and I will question my MP about the WFP when I see her.

I’m not an LP member or voter. I couldn’t vote for Conservatives, but equally don’t trust Labour.
However, I already did question our MP.

Pre election, I questioned her about Labour knowing what a woman is, and why our Labour council hadn’t repaired potholes and what would they do about the endless strikes in the run up to the election.

Before the result it took a while to get any response.
She has been very attentive since so now it’s quite quick, but she had no answer to my question about why the LP had done exactly what they criticised the CP for proposing
or how the LP would ensure that those on the cusp weren’t left struggling as a result of the withdrawal of the WFA.

Mollygo it really made me laugh, very funny, keep it up (previous page) . Someone has got to hold starmer up for ridicule!

Mollygo, love it!

eazybee

I am wondering, Dickens, how you are going to hold Starmer and the Labour party to account? They have a huge majority, brought about primarily by tactical voting, combined with a disengaged electorate many of whom chose not to vote, resulting in a Parliament filled with MPs chosen simply because they are not Tories rather than a belief in their policies.
The speed with which the fuel allowance has been removed, and the handing out of unjustified pay increases to already well-paid union members show clearly who runs this country, and it isn't Starmer.
There is no viable opposition at present and no means of holding Starmer to his promises, or denials.

Well, I write to MP'S; not just my own but others if I disagree with something they've done or, just as important imo is to thank them for things they have done, especially if they go against their own party. As a Labour party member I'll certainly make it clear if I disagree with something they've done and I will question my MP about the WFP when I see her. I won't say anything about the wage increases though because I think they are justified. Strange how people were clapping for our health workers a few years ago but now begrudge them being paid a decent wage. I hope the people who do disagree with the pay deal weren't on their doorsteps clapping because I think that would be a bit two faced.

There never is a viable opposition to government if you're looking for it to change government policy and legislation. That's the way that Westminster works and it applies whatever the size of the government majority.

All that the opposition can do is be critical of the government and hope to persuade voters to their point of view in order to influence future elections. The only tool that voters have is the ballot box.

I am wondering, Dickens, how you are going to hold Starmer and the Labour party to account? They have a huge majority, brought about primarily by tactical voting, combined with a disengaged electorate many of whom chose not to vote, resulting in a Parliament filled with MPs chosen simply because they are not Tories rather than a belief in their policies.
The speed with which the fuel allowance has been removed, and the handing out of unjustified pay increases to already well-paid union members show clearly who runs this country, and it isn't Starmer.
There is no viable opposition at present and no means of holding Starmer to his promises, or denials.

Well Dickens your long and well thought out posts will be missed.😃

foxie48

Siope I have done exactly the same thing. I took a short break from GN whilst away and coming back to it I just felt a sense of deja vu. It's a shame, I used to enjoy reading the politics and news threads, I've had my mind changed on occasions by well reasoned arguments or links to information that I hadn't considered but there's an unpleasantness in some posts ATM which I find off putting and increasingly personal.

I've had my mind changed on occasions by well reasoned arguments or links to information that I hadn't considered but there's an unpleasantness in some posts ATM which I find off putting and increasingly personal.

Me too foxie48.

As for the unpleasantness - it's because we seem to be debating the posters rather than the politics.

As Casdon said, "However, discussion isn’t taking place when the same people post the same things on multiple threads, or when they post in formats which are clearly designed to provoke a reaction rather than to engage in a discussion."

Members of GN can, of course, post in whatever style they choose. But I'm not convinced that anyone who makes comments referring to the sainted Starmer, or Mr Flip-Flop is interested in serious discussion. I've been on SM sites long enough to know when a poster is goading, and that any constructive argument intended to further debate will lead nowhere, and is pointless.

GNetters were, previously, sometimes criticised for "Tory bashing" and, quite frankly - even tho' I'm a fierce critic of the previous government - there were posts from some who appeared to be doing just that, for the sake of it.

And it's futile to engage in these kinds of discussions because it always ends up with personal attacks - the politics are lost. So I'm also going to take a break from N&P threads.

For the record, I voted for Starmer's LP. But I have every intention of holding him and it to account in the same way as I did the previous government. I think removing the WFA was wrong and, frankly, am very sceptical about the so-called "black hole" - but that's a discussion for another day.

Siope I have done exactly the same thing. I took a short break from GN whilst away and coming back to it I just felt a sense of deja vu. It's a shame, I used to enjoy reading the politics and news threads, I've had my mind changed on occasions by well reasoned arguments or links to information that I hadn't considered but there's an unpleasantness in some posts ATM which I find off putting and increasingly personal.

I expect things will get going a bit more with parliament returning and the conservative leadership contest.
Yes, ditto, Casdon.

I have been thinking the same as Casdon about not really finding it worth engaging in many politics threads presently. In fact, this post was a bit longer and more explanatory, but I realised it felt pointless, so deleted most of it.

Well said, Casdon.

Oreo

Casdon

I think what this is in reality Doodledog is a grieving process, and consequently failure to accept that Labour are going to be in power for the next five years. Deliberately provocative threads are started, people say inaccurate and inflammatory things and then when other people point out the detail of the situation, they are pounced on and derided. Another similar thread has been started this morning. I’ve realised not everybody can put their personal angst to one side at the moment. Is it worth engaging - I don’t think it is just now.

I don’t agree at all, tho of course some Conservative or Lib Dem voters may be put out just like us Labour voters were at every election for so many years.
The things that were said about tories on forums!Deliberately provocative threads, ✔️ and inflammatory things, Derision, ✔️
Especially where old Boris was concerned.Angst ✔️
Saying it isn’t worth engaging now is just not on.Engage and answer criticism while not being too defensive about Labour is the way to go.😃

It’s okay if we disagree Oreo. I’m all for discussion, as you know from other threads, and I know you are too. However, discussion isn’t taking place when the same people post the same things on multiple threads, or when they post in formats which are clearly designed to provoke a reaction rather than to engage in a discussion. We can only raise the debate on here if people get out of the old train tracks and onto new ones.

"Saying it isn’t worth engaging now is just not on.Engage and answer criticism while not being too defensive about Labour is the way to go.😃"

I agree its the way to go (eg for me being a L Party member but criticising WFA) but in terms of engagement and when we want to do it, its a personal choice whether its worth it at any given point.

I did choose to engage on the new thread as I wanted to give some basic information out despite it being a clearly provocative O/P and was on a specific point.

Casdon

I think what this is in reality Doodledog is a grieving process, and consequently failure to accept that Labour are going to be in power for the next five years. Deliberately provocative threads are started, people say inaccurate and inflammatory things and then when other people point out the detail of the situation, they are pounced on and derided. Another similar thread has been started this morning. I’ve realised not everybody can put their personal angst to one side at the moment. Is it worth engaging - I don’t think it is just now.

I don’t agree at all, tho of course some Conservative or Lib Dem voters may be put out just like us Labour voters were at every election for so many years.
The things that were said about tories on forums!Deliberately provocative threads, ✔️ and inflammatory things, Derision, ✔️
Especially where old Boris was concerned.Angst ✔️
Saying it isn’t worth engaging now is just not on.Engage and answer criticism while not being too defensive about Labour is the way to go.😃

Thanks Oreo.
I know all the excuses about the previous Labour Government, but it’s quite funny, if sadly so, that the previous LP impacted (towards then end of their time in power), on pensioners now, and this LP doesn’t waste any time in impacting on pensioners again, many of those who are also still impacted by their previous action.

I probably won’t care, by the time the parties swap again, but I am 100% certain that those criticising the recent conservative government will still be harking back to that by then.

I think what this is in reality Doodledog is a grieving process, and consequently failure to accept that Labour are going to be in power for the next five years. Deliberately provocative threads are started, people say inaccurate and inflammatory things and then when other people point out the detail of the situation, they are pounced on and derided. Another similar thread has been started this morning. I’ve realised not everybody can put their personal angst to one side at the moment. Is it worth engaging - I don’t think it is just now.