Keyboard warriors - will the jail sentences deter others?

Mollygo

No. Babs03
If you showed me a picture of a woman of different ethnicity who had done the same thing, I would still question whether prison was the correct punishment.
Though I’d still come up with the same it’s a deterrent to remind people what will happen.

The woman incited murder. What punishment do you think would have been appropriate?

25Avalon

No one wants to talk about the elephant in the room - immigration. Totally wrong to riot and attack police but to suppress and send people to jail with draconian sentences that are greater than other more serious crimes is against fair play. The government ran scared and will not discuss the underlying issues.

What does immigration have to do with the riots?

An absolute can of worms censoring the internet. I wouldn’t want to live under that sort of regime. Of course hate speech should be dealt with but prison ? Come on. That is a dictatorship. I wouldn’t sit back and just accept that. I could never live in China ( a dear friend was imprisoned there for speaking to Uyghur people about Christianity. She was lucky to get out of prison and come back to Australia). Beware, it is the thin end of the wedge allowing this.

I don't agree with you nanna8. The woman in question incited murder. The UK has a long way to go before it reaches the same level of censorship as China. Many of the people who have been sent to prison have a number of previous convictions.

nanna8

An absolute can of worms censoring the internet. I wouldn’t want to live under that sort of regime. Of course hate speech should be dealt with but prison ? Come on. That is a dictatorship. I wouldn’t sit back and just accept that. I could never live in China ( a dear friend was imprisoned there for speaking to Uyghur people about Christianity. She was lucky to get out of prison and come back to Australia). Beware, it is the thin end of the wedge allowing this.

100% agree

What has happened to the two men at the airport? The ones who beat up our police. Nothing, they have not even been charged

I’m not saying she shouldn’t be punished. She is clearly a very unpleasant person. You think it is a long way from China’s way of dealing with things. I don’t. That is how it starts. Will have to agree to differ.

25Avalon

No one wants to talk about the elephant in the room - immigration. Totally wrong to riot and attack police but to suppress and send people to jail with draconian sentences that are greater than other more serious crimes is against fair play. The government ran scared and will not discuss the underlying issues.

With regard to your opinion on draconian sentencing will just agree to disagree but to suggest that the racist riots were to do with immigration is totally unacceptable, akin to saying crimes committed by the KKK in the US are to do with immigration.
The riots were sparked by the tragedy in Southport and misinformation leading those who thrive on misinformation to believe a Muslim had committed the crime.
After that no amount of information to the contrary could have stopped the mob.
They were out for blood and are lucky that none of them are presently facing murder charges thanks to the efforts of the police.

I think it would take a lot more for me to actually go and murder someone than reading an internet post by an unknown person.. In fact I would never murder anyone. Hopefully.

They were about lots of things, pretending that immigration wasnt one of the factors is suicidal in terms of society's functioning in my view.

nanna8

I’m not saying she shouldn’t be punished. She is clearly a very unpleasant person. You think it is a long way from China’s way of dealing with things. I don’t. That is how it starts. Will have to agree to differ.

I’m not sure of your point nanna8, in that Australia would do the same thing in the same circumstances?

Galaxy

They were about lots of things, pretending that immigration wasnt one of the factors is suicidal in terms of society's functioning in my view.

To suggest is to do with immigration and not driven entirely by racism is taking us down a very dangerous road indeed. You are intelligent enough not to believe that a problem with immigration in this country validates the thugs behaviour and justifies future riots, but if we do link this to immigration there are those who will seek to validate the racists behaviour and believe that more of the same is justified.

karmalady, the situation regarding the events at the airport are part of an ongoing case. Police will be collecting evidence and be in discussion with the Crown Prosecution Service. This takes time, and during this period, the matter is sub judice.
The rioters and others have , mostly, pleaded guilty, so it's straight to sentencing.

Nothing to do with Australia, wasn’t on my mind. I hope they wouldn’t do this and I have never heard of anything like that. People just disappear ( no, just a joke !)

nanna8

Nothing to do with Australia, wasn’t on my mind. I hope they wouldn’t do this and I have never heard of anything like that. People just disappear ( no, just a joke !)

I’m pretty sure the response would be the same nanna8, people have been jailed there for social media offences, and the incitement laws are bound to be similar. It can obviously only be tested if there are riots, but I doubt many countries would respond differently in the circumstances we had. There’s plenty to learn, and do here to try to prevent similar uprisings in the future, but to suggest we have gone further here than other countries would in similar circumstances is wrong in my opinion.

Oreo

I very much doubt that anyone knew about the online safety law brought in just last year.I will be totally honest and say I didn’t.

I'm afraid that ignorance of the law is not a valid defence in a court case.

Babs03

I do wonder. And have mentioned this before.
Swap the photo of the woman who did this for a person of colour, same age, same sex, but Muslim, and the venue not a mosque but a church.
Again this will be a first offence, and the woman had no idea it was against the law.
I wonder how many will then suggest community service because a prison sentence is unfair?
Just because the woman in the photo is white and fairly old, perhaps a bit like one of us, doesn’t mean she should be given more latitude.
The law applies to everyone.

Well said.

I think the woman's comments about burning down a mosque with people in it was absolutely reprehensible. Bearing in mind places of worship in previous times have been set alight with people in them. The Jews during the Middle Ages who took refuge in a church in York perished, more recently Nazis locked French villagers in a church and set it on fire. Such individuals in the time of SM who advocate killing innocent people in such a horrible way should be made to face the consequences of what they are saying, I'm not sure what the appropriate sentence should be, but such sentiments surely constitute a hate crime.

However, some time ago it was a known fact that certain mosques hosted Iman's who gave hate speeches. Channel 4 Dispatches programme went under cover and their covert filming disclosed such rhetoric that advocated violence towards Gay people, Jews and Christians. The message was "kill the infidel" Were prison sentences received at the time? I don't think so, but I could swear to that. I do wonder now the heat is more focused on right wing extremism, and I'm not denying that is also a threat, whether those clerics who preach hate are still under surveillance, because as we know from recent history they have inspired the young, impressionable and disaffected to carry out acts of extreme terror taking many lives and leaving others permanently maimed.

The on line safety law was discussed on radio phone one, tv and radio news, as well as in news print. The focus as I understood it was on the death of a teenage girl which her parents and the coroner concluded was driven by online messages.

It's not good to ban people just because they have a different view, we need healthy debate on subjects not censorship.

I am intelligent enough to know Babs that many of us have been talking for a very long time about a group of people who are utterly ignored and who have tried repeatedly to voice their views via the ballot. I just cant believe that anyone can be surprised by the towns which were the 'hubs' of the riots, has anyone actually been to Hartlepool? If you think this is just a question of a few violent thugs (who of course were very much present and who need to be dealt with by the law) then I dont know what to say.

I don’t see convicting people who break the law as censorship. That’s different than closing down debate on the growing gap between those who have more than enough and those who have less than enough.
I live in a former proud cotton mill/engineering/manufacturing town which no longer has pride. We have high levels of unemployment, growing numbers of people on long term sickness benefit and a town centre full of people with substance dependence, begging.
We are a city of sanctuary so have increasing numbers of asylum seekers.
During the election campaign, canvassers reported the first concern voters raised was immigration, followed by nhs , cost of living, housing.
We were red wall 4 years ago, Labour this time.
The awful murders in Southport, followed by the mid-information/deliberate lies then incitement on line triggered riots.
I wish I’d easy answers about how the government can manage the numbers of people seeking sanctuary or looking for a better life. Key obviously is processing speedily but thst won’t stop people who meet the criteria for asylum arriving

During the election campaign, canvassers reported the first concern voters raised was immigration, followed by nhs , cost of living, housing.
Thank you for that comment.
When I was canvassing in a comfortable part of the south coast very few expressed concern about any of the above, being concerned with refuse collection, parking and , oh, brexit. Some ladies who lunch in an extremely expensive area laughed at the idea of concerns over immigration; it really has very little effect, they said, and the figures are exaggerated by the right wing press.

Oreo

I very much doubt that anyone knew about the online safety law brought in just last year.I will be totally honest and say I didn’t.

Perhaps those who post on Twitter/X inciting violence think that as they are not sending their hatred to a named recipient it will not count as a "poison pen letter". This new legislation makes it very clear that violence against a category of people is also illegal - but that is not a new fact.

As Mearion posted on Friday 16th Aug 22.08.03, "The Malicious Communications Acts has been in force since 1988. It makes plain that anyone who sends a communication either by letter or electronic medium which is indecent or grossly offensive to cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person is guilty of an offence which carries a custodial sentence of up to two years."

As the auld Scots saying goes, "Weel, ye ken noo' !" (in legend first said by God to a murderer and massive commandment-breaker who, when he arrived before Him for Judgment, had claimed, "But Lord, Lord, I didna' ken!")

Galaxy

They were about lots of things, pretending that immigration wasnt one of the factors is suicidal in terms of society's functioning in my view.

Totally agree.

I should have said "inciting violence against a category of people". Actually committing violence against them is obviously wrong, but inciting others to do so is also illegal.