Am I alone in finding this so tawdry?

Wyllow3

Those are valid points but what I object to are

failure to hold current conservative MP's to same standards

failure to publish the often small but positive advances the government is making. For example, how many know/read about this?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c243nll5jqpo

The news coverage over Starmers clothes and glasses is like a dead cat strategy in reverse ie an attempt to stop the electorate see what progress the government is making.

That's excellent!
As you say, it's unlikely to be noticed much, currently.

Those are valid points but what I object to are

failure to hold current conservative MP's to same standards

failure to publish the often small but positive advances the government is making. For example, how many know/read about this?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c243nll5jqpo

"Why has it become such an issue?"

Because Labour likes to send out the message that THEY are the party of high ideals and champions of those struggling and not tone deaf like Johnson and his cronies. They have been particularly inept in the dismissive way in brushing aside the furore surrounding their acceptance of what in many cases are luxury items, as if those are nothing much and it's just standard stuff, not good in the wake of the removal of the WFA, Particularly as they would have been all over it if they were still in opposition along with much rhetoric on how they would be different. Well not different enough! they are now tarnished with matching credentials so early into their tenure. So the mutterings of society's disillusioned of "same old! same old!" it's the political class. How many times does this need to be pointed out to BOTH sides and why can't they read the public's mood? they employ a whole army of advisers surely someone amongst that number cannot be so blind as to how such freebies are perceived in times of hardship. Strewth! and still it continues They've only stopped now in a rather a grudging way because of the media storm and yes plenty of criticisms in The Guardian, opinion isn't only shaped by the DM contrary to what some seem to perceive.

Yes, I must have done.
His accepted donations seem to have been buried under some of the other stuff...

LizzieDrip

^Why is it only now it's become an issue?^

MissAdventure it’s only become an issue now because the UK media has made it so!

The media in this country is almost entirely right-wing and will make it their mission to discredit anything Labour politicians do … even though those same things were / are being done by Tory politicians.

Have you forgotten the media storm over Boris Johnson?
Short term memories!

Interestingly, I listen to radio 4 news and they are giving the government the same sort of questions that they gave the Tories when they were in power. So much for the so called left wing bias of the BBC, they are just doing the job they should do ie holding people in power to account!

Exactly MissAdventure🤷‍♀️ From The Sun to The Telegraph - all right-wing biased.

Yes, I checked out the headlines a couple of days ago, and they were all virtually the same "New storm as Starmer... blah, blah, blah..."

Why is it only now it's become an issue?

MissAdventure it’s only become an issue now because the UK media has made it so!

The media in this country is almost entirely right-wing and will make it their mission to discredit anything Labour politicians do … even though those same things were / are being done by Tory politicians.

eazybee

I thought donations, any size, were made to the Party branches and used for party needs, such as office equipment, extra staff, travel. additional heating in ramshackle accommodation, etc, not personal possessions. The system has clearly been abused as were MPs expenses.

Casdon totally agree and tbh I am struggling to understand why it's less acceptable to be bought some decent expensive clothes to wear for work and for public occasions than it is to have first class air tickets, expensive hotels or the use of a private helicopter given to you.

The system hasn’t been abused though eazybee, because the system has always permitted personal gifts and donations as long as they are declared, and the vast majority of MPs have made use of the system over the years. Apart from the late declaration by Keir Starmer, nothing has been done outside the rules. What we’re trying to debate here are whether the rules are acceptable to us as voters, and if not how would we change them, what do you think regarding that?

I thought donations, any size, were made to the Party branches and used for party needs, such as office equipment, extra staff, travel. additional heating in ramshackle accommodation, etc, not personal possessions. The system has clearly been abused as were MPs expenses.

When I worked for the council as a carer, we often ended up losing out on gifts that grateful families made, because of it all needing to be fair and above board, with nobody benefitting more from it.

I expect that's why the office staff ate our tins of sweets at Christmas...

Is it fair to prevent MPs from accepting gifts from friends? They already have huge disruption to their lives. Surely the issue is if donations are being used to buy influence and that is very difficult to prove or disprove. There's already been rather a lot of "bad smells" around Jenrick but so far nothing that has prevented him being the front runner to become leader of the opposition. I think that demonstrates something quite key to this discussion. He's received nearly £200k in donations but with one exception there's no description of what the money is being used for. I'm not suggesting he's done anything wrong but there was "concern" over some of his decisions when he was housing secretary that were linked to donors.

I was a public servant too, and yes, you’re right ronib, no personal or departmental gifts, hospitality for events was only sponsored under very strict guidelines.managed funds were where donations went, all expenditure had to be approved.

You’re right Miss A, I think it’s all always been smoke and mirrors as to which expenses are allowed under the rules for politicians (almost anything seems to be allowed), and what the public think is acceptable, which depends on the prevailing mood of the media. I don’t understand why there would be a differentiation between ministers and other MPs - if that was acceptable, Keir Starmer could have had 100 pairs of glasses donated for the election campaign whilst leader of the opposition and nobody would care now, but they do. One thing is for sure, there are no easy answers.

Very strict rules

Casdon civil servants have very strict about gifts and I don’t see why serving politicians shouldn’t adhere to the same rules once in office.
Separate conditions need to be set for election expenses- which I believe do exist?
De

Why is it only now it's become an issue?

It's always been the case that these people should be well able to fund their hobbies, interests, pants, and refurbishments.

I don’t know ronib. The donations to the Labour politicians were made before they became ministers, so restricting removal of gifts and donations to ministers wouldn’t resolve what people now see as wrong. The only way I can see forward is to either change the permissions, so that for example no MPs can accept certain categories of gifts or donations, or to cease allowing them altogether - but it would have to be for all MPs.

Casdon good question. Maybe something to do with power structures? Since the prime minister and government ministers seem to benefit from the loose arrangement in place, this group won’t want to change it. It’s not to their advantage.

Why hasn’t it beeen done years ago ronib, in your opinion?

Yes Casdon the rules should be changed so that the prime minister is not the person to initiate breaches in the ministerial code. Secondly the ministerial code should have the force of law. Much stronger anti corruption would be a good start in government.

I wouldn’t be counting my chickens about any of them from any party ronib. Accepting gifts and donations is allowed within the rules, they aren’t doing anything they aren’t permitted to do, so it’s a non issue at the end of the day whatever we may feel personally about the morality of it. Should the rules be changed?

Casdon okay I confused the flats. But the principle remains - Sunak seems to have been the only prime minister to pay for refurbishing no 11 at his own expense. Look where that got him. The electorate chose Starmer who will never pay out of his own pocket for his own essentials it would seem. Wonder what next will be revealed?