What do you hope for in the budget?

I remember studying Anglo Saxon poetry back in the day - it was full of riddles:

those who know are aware of me
but those who don't will not get me
they remain in the dark
and will not know of me
until they find me, if the Reeves foretells
unless she doesn't
in which case she won't.

(IYKYK)

Mollygo

^It is a reduction in income which was expected for at least the coming year.^
And for many it means 11months @around £200 less per month, and the twelfth month with about £400 less.

Mollygo,. Your post last week. This is the one that is puzzling everyone.

Who is getting £200 less a month for 11 months and £400 less in the twelfth month?

Great riddle, BTW Dd 😂

MaizieD
Who is getting £200 less a month for 11 months and £400 less in the twelfth month?

An awful lot of people who are getting £200 less.
The 400 includes the WFA.

Mollygo

MaizieD
Who is getting £200 less a month for 11 months and £400 less in the twelfth month?

An awful lot of people who are getting £200 less.
The 400 includes the WFA.

The plot thickens. . . .

I can do epics, too :

And so the people puzzled
as those in the know knew what they knew.
And those who didn't know continued not to know
what it was they didn't know.
And those who pretended to know
carried on pretending to know,
until the Eve of Hallowe'en
when the proclamation was proclaimed by the proclaimers,
and the people were all gifted with the wisdom of Reeves.

Is the answer the old state pension over the new state pension?

I.e £169.50 against £203.85 per week?

I'm obviously thicker than two short planks, I don't get the riddles at all.

I just wish the budget was here so we'd know for sure what's going to change.

Rachel Reeves on tv just now has a permanent ‘rictus’ grin. It’s quite unnerving. Makes her look like a marionette. Perhaps she’s been told to look more cheerful. Strange optics to be honest.

And surely any sensible investor will await the budget before deciding on a new investment and any announcements will be a rehash of decisions previously made, probably under the previous Government.

Come on, Rachel, these are business people. No one trusts politicians especially when they haven't even got the basics right. They'll have you sussed and the worthwhile among them, if they invest, will ensure that it's pretty easy to divest.

I'll bet the amount of R&D you attract will be almost nothing. It'll be assembly lines and the like which can be closed down almost instantly.

Pantglas2

Is the answer the old state pension over the new state pension?

I.e £169.50 against £203.85 per week?

I hope that’s not the ‘answer’ as it’s based on a flawed equation if it is, because it doesn’t factor in the six extra years we younger pensioners had to work to get our pensions at all. We will have to live to be 75 before we overtake the total sum given to older pensioners, I’ve always felt that that is the age at which the pensions should be equalised, with a sliding scale so that the Waspis are fairly treated.

Casdon

Pantglas2

Is the answer the old state pension over the new state pension?

I.e £169.50 against £203.85 per week?

I hope that’s not the ‘answer’ as it’s based on a flawed equation if it is, because it doesn’t factor in the six extra years we younger pensioners had to work to get our pensions at all. We will have to live to be 75 before we overtake the total sum given to older pensioners, I’ve always felt that that is the age at which the pensions should be equalised, with a sliding scale so that the Waspis are fairly treated.

Nor does it factor in that, if we worked, we paid in an extra (in my case) six years of National Insurance, nor that the old state pension didn't penalise people for having opted out. I also lost a couple of years of SERPs. I worked full-time for 47 years, but still don't get a full new state pension.

So I also hope it's not the "answer"to the puzzle.

Rosie51

I'm obviously thicker than two short planks, I don't get the riddles at all.

I just wish the budget was here so we'd know for sure what's going to change.

Agreed, Rosie. I don't think anyone gets the riddles.

That's a good guess, Pantglas, but no, it can't be the old pension over the new one, as the sums take no account of SERPS or widows pension or the fact that someone on the old pension alone would qualify for both PC and the WFP. Some on the old pension are on more than anyone on the new one, who have no way to improve it unless they have an occupational one as well, which they have paid into.

To be fair, Casdon, whilst you're right about the unfairness of the six extra years, the fact that it's not comparable is not the fault of the people on the old pension, and doesn't give them more to live on now.

It's a mystery, but yes, we'll find out what's happening (if not about the £2600) on Budget Day.

We will have to live to be 75 before we overtake the total sum given to older pensioners

So older pensioners are disadvantaged after the age of 75.

Allira

^We will have to live to be 75 before we overtake the total sum given to older pensioners^

So older pensioners are disadvantaged after the age of 75.

Not if they have SERPS or a widow's pension, no. I am still waiting for my new pension, and had to contribute thousands to make up for being contacted out, despite having 47 full years. My mum stayed at home for most of my childhood, retired at 60, but gets more than I will, and has done for the best part of 30 years already.

I'd rather have worked after 60 but it wasn't possible. Neither was paying NI contributions possible after 60 even if you were allowed to work.

Mumsnet has nothing on GN for intergenerational differences!
Who'd have thought it.

Allira

I'd rather have worked after 60 but it wasn't possible. Neither was paying NI contributions possible after 60 even if you were allowed to work.

Mumsnet has nothing on GN for intergenerational differences!
Who'd have thought it.

It’s pretty obvious that there will be though, isn’t it, because a 65 year olds experiences are as different to an eighty years olds as those of a 25 year old compared with a forty year old?
I’m all in favour of raising the pension credit threshold and personal allowance, just not in favour of sweeping the extra six years we have worked under the carpet, because that’s not fair.

Aren't you lucky to have worked those extra years.

I wish!

Allira

^We will have to live to be 75 before we overtake the total sum given to older pensioners^

So older pensioners are disadvantaged after the age of 75.

True.
But when I did my sums it was nearer 80 Allira. Sadly some (most?) of us won’t reach that age. Anything less is a ‘win’ fiscally for the State.

I shall have a glass of Lidl own brand Prosecco to celebrate FriedGreenTomatoes2

Allira

I shall have a glass of Lidl own brand Prosecco to celebrate FriedGreenTomatoes2

I thought when we were caught in the pension changeover trap that it was grossly unfair.
However the point that older pensioners are still paying the same price for food, fuel, living etc whilst having to do that on up to £2688.40 less per year, or £224 less per month or 51.70 less per week evidently bothers me more than it bothers other, perhaps because I’ve seen the impact on people I know.

Mollygo

Allira

I shall have a glass of Lidl own brand Prosecco to celebrate FriedGreenTomatoes2

I thought when we were caught in the pension changeover trap that it was grossly unfair.
However the point that older pensioners are still paying the same price for food, fuel, living etc whilst having to do that on up to £2688.40 less per year, or £224 less per month or 51.70 less per week evidently bothers me more than it bothers other, perhaps because I’ve seen the impact on people I know.

That's if they managed to pay the full 39 years of NI contributions for women and 44 years of contributions for men. Any fewer and the amount is reduced proportionately.
There was never any clarity with regard to pensions, particularly as far as women were concerned.
Will the rules change yet again?

What do I hope for in the Budget?
No point in thinking about it really, as my MIL used to say "They're going to do what they're going to do".
Nothing we think or say will change that.

Mollygo

Allira

I shall have a glass of Lidl own brand Prosecco to celebrate FriedGreenTomatoes2

I thought when we were caught in the pension changeover trap that it was grossly unfair.
However the point that older pensioners are still paying the same price for food, fuel, living etc whilst having to do that on up to £2688.40 less per year, or £224 less per month or 51.70 less per week evidently bothers me more than it bothers other, perhaps because I’ve seen the impact on people I know.

So that was the answer to the riddle? Why on earth didn't you just say so?

What makes you think it bothers you more than it bothers others? People were trying to work out a set of figures that don't add up, not saying that people on the old pension have it easy.

To be fair, Casdon, whilst you're right about the unfairness of the six extra years, the fact that it's not comparable is not the fault of the people on the old pension, and doesn't give them more to live on now.

In any case, if someone is on the old pension with no other source of income they will still get the WFP as they will qualify for Pension Credit and get more than someone on the new pension.

Non-sequitur.

What if they're just above the limit?