What Will You Do With 10 Million Frozen Pensioners, Rachel?

ruthiek

Wyllow3
You are wrong that most pensioners can afford to heat without the WFA , most are just over the pension credit limit so can’t get help but they csnt do without help. I hsve one friend who sits in her coat hat and boots as she isn’t entitled to help, she had the heating and water on 1 hour a day at 64 degrees last winter .
Also as a previous council employee I dealt with many many pensioners who unlike the young of today won’t accept what they call charity and won’t go into debt as they call it by putting the heating on when they can’t afford to pay for it. I really think most people do not realise the possible catastrophe this will cause .

Hi ruthiek I think you've got the wrong poster, I have always made it clear I do not agree with cutting WFA except for those who do not need it.

I did however question the O/P figure that 10 million would freeze out of a total of 12 million pensioners.

TanaMa, your experiences are not shared by me, after 40+ years teaching, most of it in areas of high deprivation, and a further period as a school governor.
I am saddened that your time with these children has led you to such a view.

M0nica

growstuff some parents are feckless, not all by a long chalk, but feckless and disorganised. We had a neighbour like that, they were well off, nice house but I would regularly see one or other of the children rushing down to the corner shop on school days before breakfast and coming back with milk or breakfast cereal.

She was a lovely lady, I lked her, but she would have been hard pressed to get organised enough to make a cup of tea.

You obviously didn't send your own children to a breakfast club, so I think I am justified in claiming that I know more about the lives of those parents who do send their children.

In my experience, the vast majority of parents who send their children to breakfast clubs are very far from being feckless. Generally, they are working parents (sometimes single parents) who are doing everything they can to provide for themselves.

Wyllow3
You are wrong that most pensioners can afford to heat without the WFA , most are just over the pension credit limit so can’t get help but they csnt do without help. I hsve one friend who sits in her coat hat and boots as she isn’t entitled to help, she had the heating and water on 1 hour a day at 64 degrees last winter .
Also as a previous council employee I dealt with many many pensioners who unlike the young of today won’t accept what they call charity and won’t go into debt as they call it by putting the heating on when they can’t afford to pay for it. I really think most people do not realise the possible catastrophe this will cause .

Eggplant, its the LP mentality of envy that comes across strongly in some posts. I have paid a lot of tax in my working life and still now retired. Stamp duty for our last house was £17,000.

Its just spite to begrudge WFA to all pensioners after the amount of tax we have paid in. My question still stands, if its ok to take away WFA what about Starmer and his freebies?

Phew!
I wouldn't imagine they'd be your sort.

No doubt there are feckless pensioners, too.
They get everywhere.

I've seen some on the pub, drinking beer.
I even saw one smoking the other week! (No-one I knew)

No doubt there are feckless pensioners, too.
They get everywhere.

That doesnt take away from the fact that breakfast clubs are open and available to all, and will be taken into account as valid childcare provision when applying for work.

TanaMa

Perhaps if some families stopped spending the insane amount of money, that even one packet of cigarettes costs, plus beer, they may be able to afford to feed their children! As someone who used to take 'deprived' children on holiday I do have experience of this! Children would arrive in awful, almost, rags. I would provide them with some almost new clothes. Next time they came - back to rags. When asked where the new clothes were, I was told 'Dad sold them for his beer'!!
There are too many people who are expert at 'getting something for nothing' at the expense of others and that includes politicians!

Aha! Maybe those pesky pensioners who spend any surplus on bingo or coach trips (apologies for the horrendous stereotypes) could afford to heat their homes.

For goodness sake! As I wrote before, it's really no wonder that some people have little sympathy for pensioners when they come out with this sort of stuff.

growstuff some parents are feckless, not all by a long chalk, but feckless and disorganised. We had a neighbour like that, they were well off, nice house but I would regularly see one or other of the children rushing down to the corner shop on school days before breakfast and coming back with milk or breakfast cereal.

She was a lovely lady, I lked her, but she would have been hard pressed to get organised enough to make a cup of tea.

eggplant

BevSec

Growstuff, we have the lifestyle you describe, what is wrong with that?

Nothing, but a shred of humility and kindness is always handy.

Indeed!

Maybe the question should have been extended to, for example, "How much to GNers need for the lifestyle they'd like?" (or something). It's blatantly obvious that people don't actually need some of the stuff they buy with their money. Nevertheless, if they've got the money, nobody is stopping them from spending it as they wish.

However, as you say eggplant, maybe it wouldn't go amiss if those people actually understood that there are those who don't have the resources to buy what they think they need. For those people without, the concept of "need" is something different.

If you know any, could you and them to me, then please?
I havent quite got the knack of "Rocking up to the food bank" for bags and bags of shopping yet.

Perhaps if some families stopped spending the insane amount of money, that even one packet of cigarettes costs, plus beer, they may be able to afford to feed their children! As someone who used to take 'deprived' children on holiday I do have experience of this! Children would arrive in awful, almost, rags. I would provide them with some almost new clothes. Next time they came - back to rags. When asked where the new clothes were, I was told 'Dad sold them for his beer'!!
There are too many people who are expert at 'getting something for nothing' at the expense of others and that includes politicians!

BevSec

Casdon, .I do not think of it as a “freebie”. All state pensioners should be entitled to it in my opinion. How about all MPs and Starmer not expecting “freebies”. Maybe you would like to give us your opinion on that as well?

It's not a freebie, like bus passes, the Christmas bonus and free TV licences, it is a benefit which was given by a government but not incorporated into the State Pension thus can be removed at any time.

It would have been better to increase the State Pension to bring it more in line with other European countries.

MissAdventure

There are people on here who say they do not need the money, so donate it, or give it to their family members...

A nice thought but the Government want to save money so giving it to those who don't need it and would pass it on elsewhere is missing their viewpoint somewhat. Means tested is the fairest way.

I think scraping winter fuel allowance is a great idea. Far too many pensioners don’t need it and use it for holiday funds or towards Christmas and many give it to charity. I’m about to become a OAP I’d much prefer the money to go towards our NHS.

People seem to think this is something just started for "those" kinds, never mind the fact that they've been in use for ages, used by many, and for a variety of reasons.
Some days, every day, occasionally, or never.

growstuff

Secondly, (and I don't really know how many times this needs repeating) parents who use breakfast clubs for their children aren't feckless.

Governments wanted a flexible labour market - and people in work.

Well that flexibility comes at a cost - to parents with babies and school-age children, who have to manage and co-ordinate their working hours around school opening and closing times.

I cannot understand why anyone would object to breakfast clubs. It's a practical solution for those parents who need to be at work before the school opens, or for those with children who just won't eat breakfast the moment they get out of bed.

The world of work has changed, and that means that we have to adapt.

Parents, particularly mothers, really do get the stick sometimes. Educating the next generation is one of the most important things society can do. Why should we not make it easier, more comfortable - and more practical?

BevSec

Growstuff, we have the lifestyle you describe, what is wrong with that?

Nothing, but a shred of humility and kindness is always handy.

BevSec

Casdon, .I do not think of it as a “freebie”. All state pensioners should be entitled to it in my opinion. How about all MPs and Starmer not expecting “freebies”. Maybe you would like to give us your opinion on that as well?

I already have BevSec. I do see WFA as a freebie. It’s not part of our taxable pension, so what else is it? I’ve already said that I think the personal allowance should be raised and that more people should be eligible for pension credit, so that those who are dependent on the WFA should not lose out at all.

M0nica

There will not be 10 million fozen pensioners. Those on pension credit will still receive the WFA.

In 2023 the median income for pensioner households (the value where half of all pensioners had an income less than that figure and half more was nearly £28,000. ifs.org.uk/publications/how-have-pensioner-incomes-and-poverty-changed-recent-years
Suggests that at least half of pensioner households will manage very well without the WFA and probable any pensioner household with an income abov £25,000 will also manage.

So I quite agree there will be several million pensioners struggling with fuel bills this winter, and this must be a concern, but a significant number, 5 million plus, will not.

I've got a (very nearly full) job pension on top of my (old-style) State Pension. So a NMW type job pension plus an old-style State Pension together for a single person (and there will be lots of widows and widowers - as well as those of us that have always been single) is going to be on a low income. I reckon my two incomes together come to about National Minimum Wage level. That would be "struggle level" if it wasn't for my savings. Then add on that health issues cost noticeably more, on average, the older one gets and I know I've had to spend what would probably be around £2,000 p.a. so far this year on what I call "NHS bills" and that is a lot to come out of a single persons NMW level pension (even for someone like myself that owns my house outright/has no pets/doesn't run a car/doesn't smoke/is good with money. So - yep....it will be millions of pensioners that are struggling...

Casdon, .I do not think of it as a “freebie”. All state pensioners should be entitled to it in my opinion. How about all MPs and Starmer not expecting “freebies”. Maybe you would like to give us your opinion on that as well?

I can't understand why MP's will still be receiving help with their fuel bills. The income limit for pension credit needs to be raised.

Many more pensioners are entitled to the Warm Home Discount from their energy company, it’s £150. You don’t necessarily have to be on Pension credit to get it, but if you’re on certain other benefits, including housing benefit, it’s worth enquiring about it to your energy company.

As I understand it, the heating allowance was a set amount given to all pensioners because it would cost as much to means test it and deal with all the discrepancies and complaints and queries which would naturally arise as it would to just keep it simple.