What Will You Do With 10 Million Frozen Pensioners, Rachel?

No doubt it will involve some costs.

Investing in the future, I'd say.
But what do I, a "so called parent" know?

growstuff

Allira

growstuff

Allira

MayBee70

Well, if the money I’m not going to get as a WFP is going to allow the government to give free breakfasts to all primary school children it’s fine by me. But heaven forbid that some people on here can bring themselves to praise anything that Reeves is doing .

It shouldn't be a case of either/or

A country which cannot care for its elderly and its children is ethically bankrupt.

In your opinion.

So you don't think a country should care for its elderly and its young?

I am surprised.

I think it should care for all its citizens.

I think you're trying to score a point that doesn't actipually exist!
😁

MissAdventure

There is 7m budget to be put in place to fund the free breakfast clubs.

There are people on these forums who have said they give away their fuel allowance to variety to or family.

Weren't some food companies, eg Kellogs and Gregg's, plus FareShare, helping by giving cereals and other food?
The biggest cost, I would think, is staffing.
Then of course schools have to be heated etc for longer hours than normal.

karmalady

I do think breakfast club is a great idea, it will help working parents tremendously. No more nagging to get children fed before the school run and I also think it will help teach social skills as well as eating skills.

Most parents need to work these days and they need to get to work on time. All that stress first thing cannot not be good for children. Maybe now they will be keen to get into school and to have some socialising time with friends before the academic day starts.

That 10 million figure is sheer nonsense.

WFA should be stopped for all those in the higher tax bands but not for those in the lower portion of the 20% band.

👏👏👏

Greyisnotmycolour

Poor children typically grow into poor adults. Adults who remain poor all their working life will become poor pensioners, more so as state benefits reduce and more have only their compulsory "work" pension to rely on. The contributions are ridiculously low and unless workers invest far more in better pension schemes they will never have enough to live on. Poverty needs tackling in childhood to break the chain if events that lead to life long poverty. Student loans, a huge gap between graduate and minimum wage jobs lack of housing, poor health, underfunded schools, fuel poverty, the list goes on. Their will be exceptions, some break free and prosper but so many are damaged by an impoverished start that they never find the confidence or ability to defeat the odds. The WFA is less than £1 a day and I and millions of others can live without it. Yes, those that need it should receive it but we need to do better at tackling poverty. If you look after those at the bottom everyone benefits.

👏👏👏👏

Norah

Lisaangel10

“Parents need educating that if they are making babies then they need to provide for them. It’s not other peoples jobs to give their kids breakfasts. Some cereal and milk, a boiled egg and toast, yoghurt and fruit, porridge, these are cheap and easy.
Seriously?!?!!???

Work hours, poverty, no suitable cooking/refrigeration space -- the list is long. Children deserve to be fed and learn better when fed.”

Utterly appalling comment!

Can Mum’s ever win??

Working, no nurture and cannot be bothered to give them breakfast!

No working, scroungers and lazy!

For goodness sake lisaangel10, I really think you need to get a grip and not be so so patronising and downright unkind!

Well done Norah for your common sense response!

Good grammar can help too 😀
Actually, it was fat finger!

rather than wealth is they key, they is why
rather than wealth is the key, that is why

Their will be exceptions, some break free and prosper but so many are damaged by an impoverished start that they never find the confidence or ability to defeat the odds.

An impoverished childhood can be the catalyst that spurs many on to success. Good parenting rather than wealth is they key, they is why SureStart was a good idea.

However, having the 'right' contacts probably helps more!

👏

Poor children typically grow into poor adults. Adults who remain poor all their working life will become poor pensioners, more so as state benefits reduce and more have only their compulsory "work" pension to rely on. The contributions are ridiculously low and unless workers invest far more in better pension schemes they will never have enough to live on. Poverty needs tackling in childhood to break the chain if events that lead to life long poverty. Student loans, a huge gap between graduate and minimum wage jobs lack of housing, poor health, underfunded schools, fuel poverty, the list goes on. Their will be exceptions, some break free and prosper but so many are damaged by an impoverished start that they never find the confidence or ability to defeat the odds. The WFA is less than £1 a day and I and millions of others can live without it. Yes, those that need it should receive it but we need to do better at tackling poverty. If you look after those at the bottom everyone benefits.

Chocolatelovinggran

Returning to the original debate, I think that it would be justifiable to say that pensioners paying tax at a higher rate could forego the WFA, surely?
The charming lady I met at the airport, on her way to a Spa retreat in St Lucia probably doesn't need it.

The charming lady I met at the airport, on her way to a Spa retreat in St Lucia probably doesn't need it.

Of course.

But the principle behind the methodology of paying all pensioners the allowance was that it was a cheaper way of getting the money to those who needed it.

Means-testing means admin - probably a whole department devoted to the process in an office in a building which has to be paid for, as does the heating and lighting, sanitation, office equipment, the staff - with, most likely, a manager in charge. And - it's not a one-off process. As people's means change, means-testing is usually done on a yearly basis.

Someone has worked out that paying the allowance to all pensioners is cheaper than means-testing it. As it's all about the money - it makes sense.

Freya5

Breakfast clubs are a great, safe choice for working parents, children looked after, food and warmth before being taken safely to school. Then after school club too. My grandchildren all went, no such thing when mine were small, but then again I was lucky enough to be able to stay at home with them. I really don't understand why there is some disparaging of parents taking children to one. Peace of mind where children are concerned is surely most important for working parents.

I really don't understand why there is some disparaging of parents taking children to one. Peace of mind where children are concerned is surely most important for working parents.

Hear, hear!

... working parents getting it in the neck because there's now an institution which provides breakfast in a suitable environment (for which many will have to pay)...

It's about time such a brilliant scheme was instituted for working people - the very wealthy have been farming their offspring out to boarding schools - where they not only get breakfast, but lunch, tea, dinner and supper, too - for hundreds of years! In fact, they offload the whole shebang of bringing up their kids onto someone else!

Fleur20

What I don’t understand is why people on the old basic pension have to claim pension credits in the first place. If the payment is sent out from the DWP, then surely their records show who is entitled to any other benefits, the ‘computer’ should surely throw up this information. Then the person qualifying for the benefit would be contacted directly with the appropriate information. Therefore, no-one would be unaware of their entitlement.
I say this because if there are hundreds of thousands of entitled people not claiming, because they don’t know; for whatever reason; the current system is simply not fit for purpose.

Fleur You are not taking into account that many state pensioners have other sources of income, usually private or occupational pensions, and those extra sources of income will not be on the state pension website.

For example my state pension is less than the PC level, but I have a substantial occupational pension that takes me way beyond the PC level. I live with my DH, his state pension exceeds the PC level, but again he has a substantial occupational pension as well, so our joint household income

Other things that affect income levels include the level of your savings. So what you suggest would not work.

Nor do I entirely agree that the current system is failing nor I do have a lot of sympathy for those who do not claim PC when they are entitled. Nobody was always old and retired. PC has been around has been around since 2003 and before that a similar scheme called Minimum Income Guarantee was in place, so these benefits have been round a long time and have been very well publicised, so many of those now not claiming were only their 60s, 50, or even 40s when these benefits were introduced, and as I said have always been well publicised, so they should know about them.

Likewise I am not sure the 'too proud to claim' has much weight these days. When I worked as a Home Advisor for a charity for the elderly, I never had anyone who I found was entitles to PC, refuse to claim it for any reason, let alone be too proud. These are old excuses and no longer apply.

I do understand that there will always be a few people who struggle to engage with the normal world, but I think we really must expect people who are capable of going about their ordinary lives, holding down jobs, owning or renting a home, running cars or using public transport are capable of being aware of what benfits are available, even if they do not know the details, and of enquiring about them when they might be applicable.

That's exactly what they do with most benefits.

Pip has something like 58 percent of claims being rejected when first applied for, with added bonus of claiments feeling they might not be "ill enough".

Casdon

Rosie51

Fleur20 that's been a puzzle to me. If they know there are all these people entitled to pension credit but not claiming it then why aren't they contacting them directly, or are they just plucking numbers out of the air?

No expert, but I think they must know, because all income, including pension income must be linked through our National insurance numbers, otherwise they wouldn’t know who to send tax returns to? If anybody does know how it works, I’d be interested to hear too.

Agreed, the cynic in me thinks that they will save money by making Pension Credit an applied for benefit

Rosie51

Fleur20 that's been a puzzle to me. If they know there are all these people entitled to pension credit but not claiming it then why aren't they contacting them directly, or are they just plucking numbers out of the air?

No expert, but I think they must know, because all income, including pension income must be linked through our National insurance numbers, otherwise they wouldn’t know who to send tax returns to? If anybody does know how it works, I’d be interested to hear too.

Fleur20

What I don’t understand is why people on the old basic pension have to claim pension credits in the first place. If the payment is sent out from the DWP, then surely their records show who is entitled to any other benefits, the ‘computer’ should surely throw up this information. Then the person qualifying for the benefit would be contacted directly with the appropriate information. Therefore, no-one would be unaware of their entitlement.
I say this because if there are hundreds of thousands of entitled people not claiming, because they don’t know; for whatever reason; the current system is simply not fit for purpose.

I agree with you on this 👍

If they know people should be entitled to Pension Credit, just flipping give it to them without the need to fill in a 23+ page form 😡

There is 7m budget to be put in place to fund the free breakfast clubs.

There are people on these forums who have said they give away their fuel allowance to variety to or family.

Fleur20 that's been a puzzle to me. If they know there are all these people entitled to pension credit but not claiming it then why aren't they contacting them directly, or are they just plucking numbers out of the air?

maddyfour

As for pensioners running school breakfast clubs, for goodness, don’t be ridiculous.

I don’t understand why that is such a ridiculous suggestion, we already have free breakfasts at school in Wales, and grandparents and other older people do help out. If you’re somebody who gets up early, it’s a lovely, feel good volunteering opportunity. Breakfast clubs all need to be professionally run and managed obviously, but there is a role for volunteers too.

maddyfour

As for pensioners running school breakfast clubs, for goodness, don’t be ridiculous.

Nobody said they'd be running them.

What I don’t understand is why people on the old basic pension have to claim pension credits in the first place. If the payment is sent out from the DWP, then surely their records show who is entitled to any other benefits, the ‘computer’ should surely throw up this information. Then the person qualifying for the benefit would be contacted directly with the appropriate information. Therefore, no-one would be unaware of their entitlement.
I say this because if there are hundreds of thousands of entitled people not claiming, because they don’t know; for whatever reason; the current system is simply not fit for purpose.

As for pensioners running school breakfast clubs, for goodness, don’t be ridiculous.

As I’ve said before, there never was a figure of ten million frozen pensioners. The figure mooted for possible excess pensioner deaths was £4000 if WFA was abolished. However that was not a figure that Labour looked at, the figure apparently came from the Conservatives a few years ago, when they looked at possibly restricting the WFA. They decided not to follow through with that policy, and it was dropped. In fact then, following the Ukraine war, and the huge rises in fuel prices, the Conservative government supported everyone in the country for one year with fuel allowances and support was given to pensioners for three years. Additionally pensioners and other vulnerable groups were given cost of living allowances. People forget. I don’t recall anyone on here complaining about those generous allowances given to pensioners over the last three years, or saying they were giving it all to charity.
Some years ago Gordon Brown awarded the pensioners a 75 pence per week pension increase. This was greeted with much derision by pensioners and the general public. Labour has form with pensioners. The 75 pence per week, the tax raid on private pensions by Gordon Brown during their last term of office. No one should be surprised when Labour target pensioners. They have little regard for pensioners because they are perceived to vote Conservative (they obviously don’t read GN!)
This latest decision was planned before Labour took office. They had full access to all the books before the election, just as is the usual practice. The removal of WFA was preplanned. It happened too soon after the election to have been a sudden decision. And anyway, why pick on the most vulnerable group when there are so many other possible, and more worthy targets.

MissAdventure

I expect some parents may volunteer.

I don't see how parents will be volunteering, they need to get to work, but will there be sufficient fit willing pensioners? Presumably they will all need DBS checks, this isn't going to come cheap. That's not to say it shouldn't happen but it will need paid staff and will schools truly have an increased budget to fully fund it?